Was the Atari 'MIRAI' going to be a NEO AES Clone??

GigaDrive · Mar 5, 2005

while browsing through some webpages on Atari, I came across some interesting info & speculation about an Atari prototype console called 'MIRAI'. this is not to be confused the MARIA (or MARIE) which was the project codename for the much older, early-1980s-designed Atari 7800, and was also the name of 7800's graphics processor.

The MIRAI is something else. It was either a late 1980s or early 1990s project--which would put it in the same timeframe as NeoGeo MVS & AES development (1988-1989) or shortly after SNK's hardware was released (1990).
The MIRAI was probably originally going to be an Atari 16-bit console based on the internals of some version of the Atari ST computer. This would've been before the so called "64-Bit" Jaguar, and even before the 16bit|32bit 'Panther'. or maybe even in parallal with the Panther. but definitally not the same project as the Panther.

The Atari MIRAI is styled liked the Atari XE ~ XEGS and had an apparently massive cartridge slot.....massive cartridge slot for....what..... is the big question

so far, I have found the following pics and info on the Atari MIRAI console, and more importantly, speculated Atari MIRAI connections to the SNK NeoGeo.

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http://www.atarihq.com/museum/miscatari/mirai.html

ATARI MIRAI

This one has all of us perplexed. Judging by its XE Game System-like design and liberal use of pastel colors, we reckon that Mirai was a mock-up of a proposed late 80's game console. That's about the extent of it. If it weren't for the faceplate with "Mirai" written on it, we wouldn't have a clue of anything about this thing.

At first, we thought that it might be an early mock-up for a game machine based on the ST line of 16 and 32-bit Atari computers. Upon further inspection, however, we noticed the massive size of the cartridge slot... it's HUGE! Then we began to wonder if it wasn't something that Atari and SNK were discussing behind the scenes -- an Atari version of the Neo Geo, perhaps? Well, the Mirai's cartridge port would effortlessly swallow an already-hulking Neo Geo cartridge and spit it out for lunch. What about the unreleased Panther machine? The color and design scheme doesn't fit the time frame in which Panther was being developed (early 1990's). We're going to stop splitting our hairs over this one, and let you guys theorize on what this darned thing is. The only other thing worth noting is that Mirai means "future" in Japanese.

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http://www.videogex.com/hotstuff.htm

the Atari Mirai which is rumored to be the design for the game system based on the Atari ST computer lines

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http://www.cyberroach.com/cyromag/two/woa.htm

Atari Mirai ??? what is it???

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http://www.atari7800.com/html/documents_articles_10.htm

8.) SNK, (Shin Nihon Kiaku Corporation) which is best known for their Neo Geo line of arcade and home gaming products, was based just yards across the street from Atari Corporation in Sunnyvale, California. On many occasions during the early 1990's SNK and Atari had worked together on a few interesting undisclosed projects. It is believed that the mysterious Atari MIRAI mockup game system was the ultimate product of this union, possibly being the "Neo Geo for the masses" while being marketed under the more familiar Atari brand name. The MIRAI featured XEGS-like styling and a massive cartridge port which could easily swallow a Neo-Geo sized cartridge.

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http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/mirai.htm

Atari Mirai

We came across a prototype mockup of Atari Mirai at the Classic Gaming Expo. The Mirai is apparently an enigma to many since there is really no information about it. There are many who feel that the Atari Mirai may have been meant as a console conversion of Atari’s ST line of computers. This may be since it so closely resembles the Atari XEGS, which is a console conversion of Atari’s 65XE line of computers. Such a guess is understandable since both units share the same pastel like color scheme. However, Atari never produced cartridge software for their ST computers. The Atari Mirai clearly displays a cartridge port (an enormous port as you may be able to tell).

Another guess was that the Mirai was another mock-up for the Atari Panther, but many disagree since the design does not appear to match (Particularly for a console in the 1990’s. It is believed the mock-up appeared in the 1980’s).

Possibly the most interesting guess is that Atari Mirai may have been meant as home port of SNK’s MVS arcade system. There are a few facts that seem to point in that direction. For example, look at the cartridge port. This port can easily handle the MVS / Neo Geo sized cartridges. In the late 1980’s, Atari and SNK were corporate neighbors both residing across the street from one another in Sunnyvale California. Both companies were no strangers to each other. Both collaborated to port SNK’s arcade hit Ikari Warriors, and other undocumented items were also reported. Also look at the name Atari Mirai. “Mirai” is the Japanese word for “Future”. Why would Atari use a Japanese name? Atari’s other consoles either used numerical names, used wife names for developing units, or felines (In the case of Panther and Jaguar). The Neo Geo was released in 1990. It may have very well been that SNK may have thought to partner up with Atari in order to insure a successful home market launch. Such a concept may seem far fetched, but hey…Nintendo almost had Atari release the Famicom…

All in all the Mirai remains a mystery. An interesting console enigma

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Atari Mirai display unit
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http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/03/0061.php

Atari Mirai (?, prototype)
This mock-up is an enigma. Was it to be a cartridge-based
system based on the ST computer? Your guess is as good as ours.

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http://www.atarihq.com/othersec/mail/archives/1999/0304.html

Subject: Mirai Guess
From: M. Vohs

Read the exibit for the Mirai game system, I have a theory as to what it might be, here it goes:

The "Mirai" game system might be the ultra-rare & reclusive Atari VCS 9000

Supporting evidence:
1. You have boxes for the VCS-9000, but no system.
2. Mirai crtridges would fit in the VCS-9000 boxes perfectly (considering the fact that the "Mirai" carts. are about as wide as a VIC-20 cart., & the fact that the VCS-9000 boxes appear to be that wide). What do you think?

Hmmmm, interesting guess. However, if you look at the Mirai's design, you'll notice that it's similar to the XE Computers with respect to its color scheme, meaning it's a mid to late 1980's product. Of course, we're not certain WHAT it is, so everyone's opinion is just that.. an opinion.

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http://www.atarihq.com/othersec/mail/archives/2001/0304.html

Subject: Mirai
From: David F.

For what good it's worth, "Mirai" is Japanese (Kanji) for "Future." Atari obviously had high hopes for this vaporware...

Okay, it is a well known fact that Atari had a deal in the works with Nintendo in the 1983-1984 timeframe, to bring the Famicom to the America under the Atari name. without going to the history of that, it all fell apart and Nintendo went their own way.

It is a much lesser known fact that Atari was, one way or another, trying to acquire the Sega Genesis. Yeah, the Sega Genesis almost became the Atari Genesis, sometime in the late-1988 to early 1989 timeframe, before Sega introduced the Genesis to America itself at Summer CES 1989.

So, I think it is very very very reasonable that Atari was in discussions with SNK in the 1989-1992 timeframe to either bring the NeoGeo over to the U.S. under the Atari name (in 89-90 obviously, before SNK did it themselves) or, make some sort of NeoGeo clone in the early 1990s, even after SNK introduced their NeoGeo AES.

Tacitus · Mar 5, 2005

Yes, this was supposed to be a licensed model of the Neo for US consumption. I have a page somewhere explaining all of thiss off an atari fan site.

Interesting and quirky addition to Video Game history.

gt6plus · Mar 5, 2005

That thing looks 3times bigger than the NEO AES system judging by the scale of the cart slot compared to the rest of the system. The system dwarfs the cart slot!@!

Orochi Iori Y · Mar 5, 2005

Pretty interesting. Nowhere near as nice looking as an AES though!

Got to wonder what the games/system would have sold for if they would have released something like that, I would think that using the Atari name they would have wanted to sell it for cheaper than the AES ended up being in the hopes of selling more units. The look of that system doesn't really say "this machine kicks ass" though... :kekeke:

GigaDrive · Mar 5, 2005

VanillaThunder said:
Yes, this was supposed to be a licensed model of the Neo for US consumption. I have a page somewhere explaining all of thiss off an atari fan site.

Interesting and quirky addition to Video Game history.

very interesting that it was supposed to be a licensed model of Neo AES for the U.S. wow. and I would love to see that page you have somewhere.....

I am assuming it isn't one of the pages that I quoted & linked to.
(hope not, cause i wanna read more about it)

Big Shady · Mar 5, 2005

The orginal AES is much sexier, and probably less bulky.

GigaDrive · Mar 5, 2005

I just realized something. the MIRAI seems to be a system that Atari was trying to get together fairly quickly, unlike the Panther and Jaguar projects that each took a few years to develop. the MIRAI was almost certainly a console that was based on something else. something that had already been made. Atari ST, or NeoGeo chipsets. the chipsets for these had already been designed. the ST by Atari themselves (correct me if Atari did not make the various ST chipsets) and the NeoGeo MVS ~ AES had been developed by SNK.

the MIRAI could've been either of these (ST, Neo) in a new case. not too much unlike the Sega SG-3000 computer that was used as the basis for the Sega Mark III and Master System consoles. or the Fujitsu FM Towns workstation was used as the basis for the FM Towns Marty console, or the Amiga A1200 was used as the basis for the Commodore CD32.

the point is, MIRAI seems to be something that Atari was trying to rapidly cook up to counter Sega, NEC and Nintendo (and other) new consoles of the late 80s and early 90s. the thing is, there is NO WAY an Atari ST based console could compete with these newer systems, but, someone else's hardware most definitally could have

GigaDrive · Mar 5, 2005

Atari has a long history of getting ahold of, or trying to get ahold of someone else's technology, and making it their own.

1.) Nintendo Famicom - Atari would bring the Famicom or NES to America. failed. well-known.

2.) Epyx Handy color handheld. developed from 1985 to 1987 (or 87 to 89). Atari bought it outright. the Epyx Handy became the Atari Lynx. well-known.

3.) Sega Genesis - Atari tried to get the rights for the Sega Megadrive ~ Genesis and have it as the Atari Genesis in America. failed (thank God!). not very well known

4.) Flare II - Jaguar. Flare was some hardware developer in the 1980s. the Flare I | One was a prototype computer. that was developed into the unreleased Konix Multi System (aka Slipstream) which would have been the first 16-Bit console developed outside of Japan. after Konix tanked, there was the Flare 2| II |Two. this second generation Flare technology was sold to Atari and that was developed into the Jaguar. it is also possible that Flare I | One had something to do with the earlier Panther, but I am not clear on that.

speculation:

I am thinking & speculating & guessing that perhaps between Atari's failed acquisition of the Sega Genesis in late 80s and the development of Flare 2 into the Jaguar in the early 90s, the Atari-SNK deals ~ developments were probably brewing--even as Atari was simultaneously working on the Panther. An Atari Neo Geo (MIRAI) would have been a better option for Atari than the Pather, IMO. The Panther was originally only somewhat more powerful than Genesis & SNES, but had weaker audio than SNES. the Panther was originally a 16-Bit console but later re-emerged as 32-Bit machine, before being scrapped altogether in favor of the Jag.

more speculation: NeoGeo better than the early 16-Bit Panther. however, the 32-Bit Panther might have been roughly equal to, or slightly stronger than, the 16-Bit NeoGeo. but by the time the Panther had been re-developed into a 32-bit machine, the then next-gen Flare 2 ~ Jaguar technology was nearing completion. thus Atari launches in Jag in late 1993 in a limited release, and finally nationwide in 1994.

Baseley09 · Mar 5, 2005

Konix Multisystem

What a load of fucking lol that was.

Superfamifreak · Mar 5, 2005

Baseley09 said:
Konix Multisystem

What a load of fucking lol that was.

Worth buying that Telegames video just for the Konix section :tickled:

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

Baseley09 said:
Konix Multisystem

What a load of fucking lol that was.

here's a larger truck-load of fucking lmao:

The Panther could supposedly display 8,192 colors from a palette of 262,144 colors, and could display 65,535 sprites of any size simultaneously.

http://www.homecomputer.de/pages/panther.html

Flare One was the company and chipset behind both the Konix Multisystem and the Panther.

Panther a NeoGeo MVS|AES killing, sprite-shifting monster? yeah fucking right.

:rolleyes:

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

Mirai >< NeoGeo speculation

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=725461&highlight=mirai#725461

couldn't find this via google. some stuff you actually have to search the message boards themselves for.

...and i'll bet there's a shitload more.

SNK 'The Future Is Now' .... Mirai = 'Future'

:eek:

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

http://www.atariage.com/forums/view...days=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mirai&start=50

The most intriguing vaporware to me has to do with those early games that were being developed on the Panther platform. Not to mention that Atari Mirai system. That thing was HUGE. I've had two people from SNK swear to me up and down that the SNK was working with Atari as their offices were pretty close, and the Mirai was going to be the "Neo Geo for the masses" but the more I think about what they said to me the less I believe it. Why hasn't this Mirai thing been solved once and for all?

Robert · Mar 6, 2005

I don't see the point in building a NEO for the mass when the cartdriges price will still make it unreachable for 99% of the players community.

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

Robert said:
I don't see the point in building a NEO for the mass when the cartdriges price will still make it unreachable for 99% of the players community.

who knows. maybe Atari had some compression thingy were they could compress NeoGeo game-data down by say, 2-4 times, lowering the amount of real memory needed to store a game, thus lowering costs, to the point were $200~$300 NeoGeo games could be sold for under $100. I just made that up but, like I said, maybe Atari had some technology to help reduce costs.

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

more from that AtariAge thread:

It's Japanese for "future".

See! That's awesome. That's just the kind of name a company would give an advanced game system of that time as it was well thought-out and forward thinking, just like Genesis as the birth of the 16-Bit Era.

Okay so WHAT IS THIS THING? This Mirai thing has driven me nuts forever. So let's take what we already know and try to piece this mother together and figure this thing out. With the name Mirai and the styling of the console we can pretty much determine...

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- The name Mirai is not in keeping with the Warner Atari Inc numerical names (i.e. 2600, 5200, 7800) and with Warner dealing with all three home systems at the time of the sale in 1984 it is highly unlikely the Mirai project was something started at Atari while still under Warner ownership.

- The Mirai name is also not in keeping with the "Cat" names the Tramiel Atari Corp liked to use. LYNX launched in 1989 so it is highly likely that this Mirai thing was developed prior to the LYNX.

- The Mirai styling is in close keeping with the XE Game Machine using a variety of pastel colors on a two-tone off-white shell. This would pretty much place the Mirai somewhere between 1986 - 1989, most likely closer to '86 as the Panther popped up right around 1990 and 1991.

- The Mirai most likely would not have been based off of the XE platform as the cartridge size was a good three to four times larger. Secondly, Atari already had the 7800, 2600, XEGM, XE130 and XE65 computers in their 8-Bit line. There's no way in hell this would have been an 8-Bit Machine. If "Mirai" means "Future" in Japanese, it seems pretty evident that this would have been a high-end expensive game system to pioneer the new market, which in 1986 would have been 16-Bit, three years before the rest.
.......................................

Okay... so we can deduce that the Mirai was during the Tramiel era before the advent of Lynx and Panther and would have been "the system of tomorrow." We also know that Tramiel was cheap and would not have spent too much developing a totally new 16-Bit set when he had already just put so much into the ST line. Heck the Jaguar is based off of the Falcon, wouldn't it have made sense that the Mirai advanced gaming system of the mid 1980's would have been based off of Tramiel's flagship technology of the day, the ST? That cartridge port sure seems like it could handle it.

Anyway, that's my sixty-second conspiracy theory of the day.

it gets better.....

I agree, as someone (was it Curt?) recently advised that he had found some dox with respect to plans to develop a 16-bit gaming system, as a stop-gap measure between the 7800 and the Panther, which most likely would have utilized ST architecture.

That name is troubling, though. It sounds like much more of a Neo*Geo influence than a Tramiel trademark. I bet that the Tramiels secretly engaged with Neo*Geo to develop a new gaming platform -- possibly using the Neo architecture -- and then stole the design and naming concept for a possible planned ST gaming console.

it sounds SOOOOO crazy..... but it kinda makes sense at the same time

That's a very good point. The story I had always been told from two people I knew who worked at SNK at the time was that "SNK had an office right acrossed from one of the Atari offices and the two companies started to build a working relationship with eachother until it went sour due to Jack." and that the Mirai would have been based off of the Neo Geo technology. That cartridge bay on the Mirai could have easilly swollowed a Neo Geo cartridge. Jack had gotten the LYNX technology from Epyx so it's not out of the question that he would have gotten some technology from SNK.

Thing is... I just don't believe that story so much. I was never able to find one person within Atari who could confirm that in any way. And if he already had some great 16-Bit technology in the ST why throw it away and wait until 1989 when the Neo Geo came out on the market to play around with it. That just seems too late in the game. I'd love to see Curt's documentation though that sounds really neat.

there are almost as many reasons why the MIRAI was not based on Neo, as there are for it.

It could be that SNK were originally going to partner with a North American company to co-produce the Mirai, the same way Atari and Epyx originally co-produced the Lynx, and Namco and Sony originally worked together to produce the PSX. I read recently in Retro Magazine that Sega had talked to a few different companies, including Atari, about co-producing the Genesis. But they couldn't find any takers, so they went it alone. It doesn't seem too unlikely that SNK was designing the Neo*Geo hardware, but they wanted an already established hardware company to do the hardware for the arcade and home versions, because the real money is in software, not hardware. I'm sure that the plan wouldn't have gotten very far, knowing the Tramiels.

the Tramiels would have RUINED the NeoGeo experience in the USA. good thing SNK went it alone. good thing Nintendo, Sega and SNK *all* went it alone. good thing Atari did not hook any of those systems.....opps....forgot about the poor LYNX...

GigaDrive · Mar 6, 2005

another AtariAge thread...not much, but....

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=525449&highlight=mirai#525449

That system appeared on Game Informer like 4 months ago and it was rumored it was a 16/32 bit machine developed by atari with the help of SNK!!

Additional Info remains a MYSTERY

GigaDrive · Mar 9, 2005

after making a thread on Assemblergames forum with the same info as my original post here, Blur from that forum posted the question at hand to the AtariAge forum. after days without reply, several replies were posted, including this large meaty one

Ferris wrote:

Just because SNK/Playmore gave the response that "Atari was never asked to distribute the Neo-Geo in the United States" does not mean that this was not the result of some sort of bastardized collaboration between the two companies.

For one, SNK is no longer SNK just as Atari is no longer Atari. SNK was acquired by Playmore in recent years and is a far cry from the original SNK of the late 1980s. Today's Atari bears little resemblance to their former being and retains little knowledge of the past aside from what legal documentation they have and what Curt may contribute from his vast knowledge. SNK/Playmore would be no different. Bottom line... what the hell do they know first hand?

Secondly, from everything I've heard from former employees about the Mirai and it's suspected tangled relationship with SNK, the "Mirai/SNK" scenario does *NOT* call for the Mirai to be a "rebodied" Neo-Geo to be sold under the Atari name. This was not to be like the 1983 Nintendo Famicom deal where Nintendo asked Atari to distribute the NES in America as an Atari system, simply folding the Famicom down into the 2600jr's case. People seem to think that the Mirai WAS a Neo-Geo and from what I know this is not true.

The "Mirai/SNK" scenario I've come across that holds more water than others presents us with a game system being developed between 1987 to 1988 (same development as the Neo-Geo MVS arcade unit and identical AES home console, and same time period the XEGM styling was prevalent within Atari). Jack had seen Nintendo turn the industry around and was interested in creating a game machine out of the ST to beat Nintendo to the next generation system. (A game machine had been created out of the XE line so why not an STGM?)

At some point early on SNK (which had made Ikari Warriors for the 7800) and Atari began some sort of cross-pollination between companies. The relationship was casual and arose out of a relationship between the Tramiel family and the Barone family. Ask any Atari enthusiast who the Tramiel family was and they will go off on a rant. Ask any SNK enthusiast about the Barone family and they will do the same. The Tramiels and Barone's shared a great deal in common, as do the stories of their respective corporations. This was not some super high level corporate agreement made through lawyers. This was personal. It's a little sketchy but it seems like Atari would share some of their intellectual property with SNK USA and in return SNK would share some of their technology with Atari, technology that would allow Jack to create an ST-based game system that was way more advanced than anything Nintendo or Sega had to offer at that time. The Neo-Geo was an arcade system first and a home system second, and at that, the Neo-Geo was a niche market product with an MSRP over $500, not something that would need to compete with the $199 system Jack wanted to make. SNK and Atari would not be in each other’s way. Two separate game systems. Totally separate market share. It was technology (most likely surrounding the Neo-Geo's cartridge capacity and dual-board pinout) that was shared, not the system its self.

Ultimately in this scenario, the relationship between SNK and Atari (and the Barones and the Tramiels) came to an end shortly after it had begun. Not sure if this was a nasty breakup or if the two just couldn’t prove beneficial to one another, but it ended. The ST-based system was passed over by the end of 1988 to begin work on the Panther (which I'm pretty sure was loosely based on the ST/TT line) and ultimately to the Falconish Jaguar.

Keep in mind this is just a *scenario* put forth to try to connect the dots and make sense of the Mirai. I've been told this story by four people, all with first-hand knowledge at Atari in one way or another, but none of them could claim to have worked on the Mirai, just that "this is what I heard around the watercooler" stuff. If all this is incorrect then oh well.

What's sad is that if Jack hadn’t been jerking around with things so much on the computer end of things and could get his act together instead of fiddling with the Panther for so long, Atari could have had a great 16-Bit system out around the same time the PC Engine / TurboGrafx-16 came out in Japan, well before the SNES or Genesis. 1985 (ST) to 1989 (TG & Gen) is a hell of a lead time.

As for SNK, they can claim that "Atari was never asked to distribute the Neo-Geo in the United States" all they want because it's true. I don't question that for a second. Atari didn't have great distribution channels by 1990 when the Neo came out, besides the Neo-Geo went into stores like Bloomingdales, not Sears. That being said, SNK/Playmore would likely have no record of what the Barone family did on the side.

A final thought - The word Mirai apparently is the Japanese word for "Future" or "Tomorrow"...can't back this up first hand because I dont speak Japanese, but if it's true, what would provoke an Atari project to be given a Japanese name? Short of Nolan playing GO while drunk, SNK seems to be a viable causation.

Okay... now tell me how wrong I am.

http://www.atariage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=65900&highlight=mirai

Was the Atari 'MIRAI' going to be a NEO AES Clone??

GigaDrive

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Robert

,

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