STAMPBOARDS - Postage Stamp Chat Board and Stamp Forum

Here is an interesting POLL for members.

The engraved Kookaburra 3d and 6d stamps were both issued only single line perforated.

That means, they were perf one row at a time up, and then down each sheet, in a pile of 100 master sheets or so.

Just like using a slightly higher tech sewing machine basically. And often not very well done.

The 3d Blue Kooka mini sheets can often have 1 or 2 stamps nicely centred, and the other 2, with perfs touching or cut into. Either vertically or horizontally - or both!

To find one of these sheets looking even HALF decent facially is darn hard. (And the reverses are often appalling, as these were essentially printed on coarse blotting paper, and thin, and fox readily, but that's another story!

Near all corners are "funny" looking on line perfs, as can be seen, as they do not intersect neatly as we find with the far more usual comb perforation.

The M/S above I sold this week here to a member for my usual retail, and thought nothing about it, even though the stamps were nicely centred and "larger" then usual -

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=27382

If we tore stamp 4 out on its own, it would look like this - i.e. "larger" than usual.
So here is this POLL question .. if you owned this "large margin" hinged 6d kookaburra below, (SG 19, £75) how much would you feel is fair retail value?
This is the day to day decision that all real dealers need to make.

We do not live in ebay world where fantasy, lies, and total guesswork and clueless Bunnies rule the world - we live in the REAL stamp world!

Let's see how you go.

Make your vote, and then add your comments as to WHY.

stampboards above all else is about LEARNING.

This question does have a definitive answer, and that answer will be posted after we get a few dozen votes in.

Glen

Given that its not a USA stamp that has been slabbed and graded, we're also not living in that fantasy world of 1,000% of catalogue value realizations.

I went with treble normal, based on your description of how horridly centered these can come out. And if they were perfed 100 sheets at a time, that would mean if the machine is out of register, it 'spoils' the whole batch.

I've said quadruple normal, but it's a guess.

For an auction, I would 'Much more', that being the sky's the limit as to how much a collector will bid to get the best.

But if I had to put a figure on it myself as in selling in a stamp shop, I'd triple the price (i.e $80 item well centred - $ 240), as I feel that an item that hard to find is not only hard for me to BUY, but I have to sell it again, make a profit, pay bills and buy more stamps, but most importantly put a price on it that will SELL.

Darrin.

I concur with Muruk

I also believe that that catalogue prices are representive of clean, fresh, good perfs & well centred stamps.

If that is what the stamp is, then that is its full catalogue value.

If you a prepared to pay a premium as you believe that is what it is worth to you, then so be it. That is how prices go up in catalogues...

IMHO a poorer quality stamp should sell for less than the catalogued price.

However Glen did not ask "what % of/over catalogue" or "how many times catalogue", but rather "how many times normal retail".

So the catalogue publisher says a well-centered copy is worth $100, but at a stamp fair there could be 1/2 dozen dealers offering that stamp in such condition for $60.

We all know catalogue values can be out of sync with retail prices, so lets concentrate more closely on what the poll options say.

aethelwulf wrote:However Glen did not ask "what % of/over catalogue" or "how many times catalogue", but rather "how many times normal retail".

So the catalogue publisher says a well-centered copy is worth $100, but at a stamp fair there could be 1/2 dozen dealers offering that stamp in such condition for $60.

We all know catalogue values can be out of sync with retail prices, so lets concentrate more closely on what the poll options say.

No, that is not quite true...

Global Administrator wrote:So here is this POLL question .. if you owned this "large margin" hinged 6d kookaburra below, (SG 19, £75) how much would you feel is fair retail value?.

To clarify my position, full catalogue value is £75 = (say) $115 AUD.

Juzwin has this stamp at $85 AUD as MLH - assume that is retail.

I feel that fair retail is the same as full catalogue ie $115.

Does that answer the question?

The "small print" in most catalogues for "early" issues talks about premiums of 100%, 200%, 400% etc premium for "well-centred".

On that basis (and without looking....) I've gone for 4x.

I must admit that I have no idea and selected number 5 simply because it looked lonely and if I am going to be wrong, it may as well be very wrong (I will learn more).

Being a newbie returning to this hobby, my keen eye is currently geared for buying only. It is great when I spot a very nice item at a good price

However, as requested, I must give an explanation for my selection (oops - now to make something up).

My thoughts are that the stamp is the result of a rare event.

With line perforation there will be more than one such stamp with wide borders in an entire sheet but to also have perfect centering would require exceptional accuracy/luck (not many like this would exist).

The effect is of a nicely centered stamp with large even borders all the way around - a rare item - simply stunning - you could swing a cat in all that space (I have gone too far - must stop now).

I look forward to learning the true answer and gaining valuable knowledge for when I do decide to begin selling.

I've gone for treble only because one of my catalogues states variances in pricing from 70% to 130% depending on centering. As this is extremely well centered it has to be at the higher end.

I suppose in the end the real value depends on supply and demand.

Smack in the middle centering with no faults on a difficult to locate line perf... I went with 5 times but probably higher. We are talking the best you can possibly get for this stamp!

And who on earth (that's 5 of you so far) said "basically no difference"?

At least its not a 50,000% mark up slab/plastic/entombed example.

Most early issues are extremly difficult to obtain well centered and do command a premium. I too have voted for a multiple of 4x

Hello Everyone.

Being very new to this hobby I can agree with aethelwulf's argument.

aethelwulf wrote:I went with treble normal, based on your description of how horridly centered these can come out. And if they were perfed 100 sheets at a time, that would mean if the machine is out of register, it 'spoils' the whole batch.

My choice was treble the normal price.

Cheers!

I went ' much higher '

Because I like that block. It looks good.

A single line perf should by definition be centered well , every time.

We know they are not , when an example like that is seen it shows that the operator has been good on the job and it should add a hefty premium to the issue.

Nice!

I like watching these polls, good call once again! 8)

One question, are we talking *White or Black Money*?

Have a good one,

Skilo54

*Special note*- specifically referring to a banned members post regarding underground currency FTR

barry_e wrote:I went ' much higher '

Because I like that block. It looks good.

Nice to hear.

However we are voting on the 6d Brown, not the 3d block - i.e. the mini sheet.

The mini sheet as I stated I sold here for normal retail price this week. Shame I did not realise you'd have paid 5 times what it sold for.

It was used simply as an example, to show how centering varies a lot stamp to stamp on line perfs.

Glen

So, assuming we are all voting on the stamp item (and I now really wonder about that!) here we are after 30 votes cast -

POLL: How much EXTRA is a well centred Aust line perf stamp worth?

1. About normal hinged price ~$A80 17% [ 5 ]
2. About twice a normal hinged copy ~$A150 27% [ 8 ]
3. About treble a normal hinged copy ~$A250 30% [ 9 ]
4. About quadruple a normal hinged copy ~$A320 10% [ 3 ]
5. About five times a normal hinged copy ~$A400 7% [ 2 ]
6. Much higher 10% [ 3 ]

Total votes : 30

john6625 wrote:I've gone for treble only because one of my catalogues states variances in pricing from 70% to 130% depending on centering. As this is extremely well centered it has to be at the higher end.

I suppose in the end the real value depends on supply and demand.

I can't figure out how 130% gets to be treble.

Capt. Kirk had trouble with tribbles, we have trouble with treble.

Hello.

skilo54 wrote:Does treble mean triple? Triple means 3x where I live and treble is used when talking home sound systems and live audio transmissions etc.

Just wonderin'

Skilo54

I think in Canada that particular meaning of treble has a seldom use. It is more often used as a term in music, i.e. a higher pitch. As was pointed out by muruk.

Cheers!

muruk wrote:

john6625 wrote:I've gone for treble only because one of my catalogues states variances in pricing from 70% to 130% depending on centering. As this is extremely well centered it has to be at the higher end.

I suppose in the end the real value depends on supply and demand.

I can't figure out how 130% gets to be treble.

Maths was never a strong point

I still think its treble though

Well after 41 votes we are at -

POLL: How much EXTRA is a well centred Aust line perf stamp worth?

1. About normal hinged price ~$A80 17% [ 7 ]
2. About twice a normal hinged copy ~$A150 27% [ 11 ]
3. About treble a normal hinged copy ~$A250 27% [ 11 ]
4. About quadruple a normal hinged copy ~$A320 12% [ 5 ]
5. About five times a normal hinged copy ~$A400 7% [ 3 ]
6. Much higher 10% [ 4 ]

Total votes : 41

I guessed double retail. I qualify this choice saying that it really depends on demand.

If I were looking for such an exquisite variety, and had been looking for a long time, I might be willing to pay double the normal retail value.

On the other hand, if I were only trying to fill holes in an Australian collection, I probably wouldn't be willing to pay double.

Never the less, I do believe this one IS worth more than the normal retail price (even if not double).

I voted for triple because double would apply to a nice well centred example and this one is 'jumbo' size and well centred so it should be worth more than a standard well centred example.

I have read however that stamp buyers in the US go nuts for jumbo examples so more than triple wouldn't surprise me.

These are very very hard to find well centred and with large margins. 5X !

My vote is for much higher simply because of the rare fine example it is.

It has been proven many times that catalogue value is not always gospel.

I think if this stamp went to auction if someone really wanted it as a fine example they would be prepared to pay up to 10 times the value ,who knows what it would fetch.

That's just my observation of it.

Regards
Brickie

Not knowing anything about Australian stamps, I selected "normal" but what I really meant was "full catalog" value. (Which is probably 2 or 3 times what a "normal" hinged example sells for.)

Rationale: IMO, the stamp you showed would grade at 80J or 85J (not 90J, too off-center in both dimensions) if it were a US stamp (hard to say, since this stamp has wider margins than US issues to begin with). To fetch full catalog, or even close to it, a US stamp (with variable perfs and margins) needs to be better than VF centered. Obviously there are people who pay extraordinary premiums for 95 or 98+ examples, but even 90J isn't usually enough to get more than full catalog value at auction.

Just my 2 cents, certainly an interesting question for a dealer to consider.

WE have 48 votes so far ... lets get 50 votes in, and then I'll announce the result!

Glen

Well... don't know how much it is actually worth, but to me I would pay twice the value (voted accordingly).

I voted much higher for no reason other than i wanted to know the result.

OK after 50 votes we get this.

Only 10% of member guesses were correct.


POLL: How much EXTRA is a well centred Aust line perf stamp worth?
1. About normal hinged price ~$A80 16% [ 8 ]
2. About twice a normal hinged copy ~$A150 30% [ 15 ]
3. About treble a normal hinged copy ~$A250 24% [ 12 ]
4. About quadruple a normal hinged copy ~$A320 10% [ 5 ]
5. About five times a normal hinged copy ~$A400 10% [ 5 ]
6. Much higher 10% [ 5 ]

Total votes : 50
.

Thats a big increase, would that be achievable in the market at this time , or is it heading that way due to increasing demand for quality material.

Another example of SG getting it wrong?

Or are they just not reacting quickly enough?

GlenStephens wrote:Only 10% of member guesses were correct.


4. About quadruple a normal hinged copy ~$A320 10% [ 5 ]
5. About five times a normal hinged copy ~$A400 10% [ 5 ]
6. Much higher 10% [ 5 ]

So, which was the correct answer

http://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/catlot.p ... e=opd&lim=

It sold for '$300' at a major auction last week .... but as it was a "T" lot the invoice was -

$A300
Plus 10% 'T' =- $A30,
Plus 15% "Buyer Fee" on top of both = $49.50
= $A379.50,
Plus shipping and handling and insurance, so pretty much a $400 invoice I'd guess.

So number #5 is our winner, and only 5 out of 50 members (10%) got it correct.

Glen

Aww Glen - trick question

As a dealer you should know that there is a difference between what something is worth and what someone is prepared to pay

Nope, post #1 said the following -

Global Administrator wrote:
So here is this POLL question .. if you owned this "large margin" hinged 6d kookaburra below, (SG 19, £75) how much would you feel is fair retail value?

This is the day to day decision that all real dealers need to make.

We do not live in ebay world where fantasy, lies, and total guesswork and clueless Bunnies rule the world - we live in the REAL stamp world!

Let's see how you go.

Make your vote, and then add your comments as to WHY.

stampboards above all else is about LEARNING.

Fair enough - be interesting to see what the next similar item fetches

And one of those five should buy a lotto ticket - no logic in my selecting the correct answer.

Thanks Glen for an interesting exercise.
I did read the question and do some research. In the end - guessed correctly .

KevinHedley wrote:And one of those five should buy a lotto ticket.

Bought a ticket every week for 30 years, maybe this week .

Just an innocent query.

When a person on ebay pays over the going normal price range, some say he is a fool.

when a person pays over the going normal price range off a dealer then this becomes the new benchmark.

Something inconsistant here, or am I missing something.

I thought new benchmarks were set by multiple high price purchases by collectors , has this occured, as I say an innocent query , I do not know or have that level of exposure myself.

When a bunny on ebay pays well over the normal, its for a normal, standard, run of the mill, get it everywhere cheaper stamp.

But this one is a rare, hard to find again, not standard, probably the best example your likely to see of the same stamp. There is a big difference!

The stamp above (and the mini-sheet actually) would set the benchmark for "how good can it get".

Hi! I know this does not relate to the question above but has anyone noticed the bottom left stamp on the mini sheet .There appears to be a flaw under the 3d .
Regards Brickie

dukeprince wrote:
When a person on ebay pays over the going normal price range, some say he is a fool.

when a person pays over the going normal price range off a dealer then this becomes the new benchmark.

Something inconsistant here, or am I missing something.

As Allanswood said - this is an example of experienced collectors paying $400 as this is a one in a 10,000 stamp - and they and the auction house recognised that.

On ebay we often write about clueless Bunnies paying double or treble the price real dealers ask all day long for the same items, as they have not got a clue.

ebay sellers like "stampcollectorboz" and his main current fake ID "gottacute" have turned knowingly lying about "retail" price into an art form, and conned masses of extra money off Bunnies who think it is actually true.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Roo-Acsc-57B-SG114-SM-Wmk-VFU-SUPERB-/120718252217

His time honoured and Hallmark deceptive trick is to scan stamps with something to hide on a WHITE background, so you cannot see much of the centering or perf detail.

Now peering past that trickery we can see this Roo is a reasonable stamp. Mid to upper grade. Centred way too high, and with a pulled perf, and many scissor clipped perfs, and grubby at SE corner. Indeed entire face has been rather grubby it seems clear, and has largely been doctored up and "improved".

This stamp is on Juzwin list as fault free at $875. He'd sell a fairly good copy like this for around $500-$550 as would I, and as would most real dealers.

So what does Senor Spiv describe this as to the Bunnies. "VFU SUPERB". Well no, it is far from that.

Here is the bit that cons the Bunnies and is total fiction -

USUAL MARKET FOR THIS RARE STAMP IS WELL OVER $1200

This stamp would not sell for $1200 or anything remotely like that, from any real dealer on this planet. Indeed HALF that is what most would cheerfuly ask. SG 114.

This con knows that, yet pushes this totally fictional figure so his "Buy It Now" asking price of $545 looks a bargain to some Hillbilly who has never heard of a real stamp dealer.

One day I pray someone takes him to Consumer Affairs, and he is forced to refund.

The 6d Engraved is notoriously difficult to find well centered. Since there were much fewer of them that the 3d, there was much less opportunity to get a nicely centered example.

Having said that, I certainly wouldn't have been prepared to pay $400 plus for that stamp (beautifully centered though it is). The poll question specifically asked what I felt the stamp was worth. I answered double and, since that is what I think it is worth, I can't be called wrong.

Also, unlike some parts of the world (or so it seems), most collectors of Australia are happy with a reasonably centered example of this stamp, knowing how it was perforated. Good luck to whoever paid that much but I think it will be a long wait to see any sort of return.

I have at times had to replace a very fine stamp due to making the rest of the page look second rate.

I guess this quality of Stamp would be collecting differently than to just filling the gaps collecting.

Possibly an exhibit perhaps.?

It is worth what someone is willing to pay at the time that you are willing to sell!

Case in point: Dominican Republic Scott's 8 (watermarked) 1866 presumed 42 copies printed!

A very rare and scarce stamp, in 2006 Washington Auction sold for 13,000 US$ plus the usual extras.

I know a dealer selling 2 copies for 3-4000 each and no takers! Go figure...