You *MUST* use paypal on all sales? Am I reading this right?

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 14:28

A friend who does not have or use paypal (or has any DESIRE to use paypal for ANY reason) sent me this ebay email from today:

Because you are a valued seller we'd like to let you know about some changes to eBay.com.au that are going to make our marketplace an even safer place for you to buy and sell.

These changes will be introduced in two stages:

From 21 May you must offer PayPal on all your listings as well as currently permitted payment methods.

From 17 June you will only be able to offer PayPal on your listings and pay on pick up (i.e.paid for when picking up the item).

Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal. No other payment methods will be permitted.

A small number of exclusions will apply to these changes.

SAFER ????????????????

When paypal can overturn near anything, at any time, for near any reason?

And screw you for fees all the times you do use it?

Right now a huge % of oz sales are done via bank transfer, which is free to both users. Once THAT is done THAT is SAFE. You get your money and ebay cannot touch it, no matter what.

PayPal is not safe from any kind of arbitrary claim of non receipt, damage, or a myriad of other nonsense claims they permit.

Is this just an oz policy - or global?

If global, ebay will slide back ever further, what with the increased fees recently, and this new Shill Bidder Heaven policy, superb for all conmen sellers, of now masking all bidders.

Glen

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 14:35

Imagine you are selling a 'collect only' item. Very common in large cities.

A TV set, Fridge, desk top computer, lawn-mower, bed, kid's bike , furniture - whatever.

Right now the buyer comes, checks the item works fine, and takes the item, and pays you CASH.

Everyone is covered.

Are these idiots now saying you need to take only PAYPAL in such cases?????

Joe The Spiv takes your TV, gets home and claims the set does not work, or blew up, or whatever.

And lodges a faulty item claim against you and freezes the funds.

Insane.

Browny · Post by **Browny** » 10 Apr 2008 14:59

Just received the same email myself

ALL listings MUST offer paypal as the ONLY form of payment from the 17th June!!

Amazing "Orwellian" business philosophy!

Browny · Post by **Browny** » 10 Apr 2008 15:08

I know many Oz buyers dont like items listed in US$ or GB£, however this paypal "lets-ram-it-down-their-throats" enforcement is just another reason why many Oz based sellers are listing items for sale on other country ebay sites.

Will be interested to see how they stop Oz sellers saying they accept direct deposits from Australian residents if the item is listed on ebay US

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » 10 Apr 2008 15:10

Well ebay will be losing a lot of customers then, if this is the case !!

I was buying a lot off ebay last year, and paying via paypal, all seemed to be going well, or so I thought....

Somewhere along the line paypal decided not to debit my credit card and took money out of my bank account instead.

Problem was being a savings account (one of those incentive to save ones) I was paying $5.00 bank fee's for every withdrawl !!!!!!

Luckily the bank alerted me, after $95 worth of fee's in one month they assumed I didn't know what type of account I had and offered to change it to a standard one.

I assured them I hadn't made any withdrawls (that I knew of) and thats when we found paypal had been dipping in there instead of using my credit card.

graciously the bank refunded the fee's, and I removed my bank details from Paypal (I only lodged them to get verified, whatever that is, anyway they needed bank details for some reason)

Vowed never to use paypal again

And looks like now I won't be shopping on ebay, if Paypal is to become the only payment option.

Thanks for the heads up Glen, regarding the changes to come.

(sorry for ther long post... I'm on a rant !!

)

Cheers,
Skippy

OttawaMike · Post by **OttawaMike** » 10 Apr 2008 15:31

A couple of things - As I understand it, similar changes are being introduced on ebay US - new sellers must offer PayPal as an OPTION. Buyer's choice. I had heard that there are exemptions for established sellers, although I have not checked what they are, exactly. Don't know about pick-up.

As a buyer, with most of my transactions being with sellers outside of Canada, I use Paypal for just about everything. I generally don't deal with someone who doesn't offer that option, unless I have a high degree of faith and trust (like when I have purchased from Glen

)

But philosophically, I object to anyone being prevented from conducting business as they see fit (within the law). As long as both parties agree to the terms of the transaction, there should not be a problem.

I think can see where ebay is coming from - the vast majority of their headaches must come from problematic sellers, and the more that Paypal gets used, the fewer problems they will have, since Paypal favours the buyer.

Whether or not this adversely affects their business, well, time will tell. I rather doubt it will have a major impact. It won't hurt buyers, as they are not compelled to use Paypal. And too many sellers get too much advantage out of the huge traffic that ebay affords them. And most already offer Paypal anyway, at least from my admittedly anectodal experience.

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 10 Apr 2008 15:42

I have just read an article on the News.com site, that in June, the only way to pay for goods on EEEEBay will be by using Paypal. The only exception will be when you personally pick up the item, then you can pay by cash.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23516566-5014108,00.html

OttawaMike · Post by **OttawaMike** » 10 Apr 2008 15:48

I see by Warof's thread that ebay Oz has gone to the extreme of forcing use of Paypal.

Now that IS dumb.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 15:53

OttawaMike wrote:
I see by Warof's thread that ebay Oz has gone to the extreme of forcing use of PayPal.

Now that IS dumb.

That was actually the point of THIS thread.

Merged his thread here as we do not need two.

doug2222usa · Post by **doug2222usa** » 10 Apr 2008 16:37

I don't know how ebay will "police" all these millions of listings.

One tip I will pass along: I am sure the computers look for certain keywords (like "cash") in order to flag listings. For a long time, I have purposely misspelled these keywords so the computers don't find them. This has worked reasonably well, even though it makes me look like a dunce.

You can be sure, for instance, that I will accept U.S. currrency from foreign buyers LOL LOL.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » 10 Apr 2008 16:50

Interesting thread, at least to me!

I've been using PayPal for some years now and the reason I went to it was to but from overseas sellers to avoid repeatedly sending credit details. If it is not accepted I do not bid - so far I only buy and do not sell on ebay.

It is now my preferred method in Australia to unless the seller will give the name of the bank. My reason for this is that some sellers use minor credit societies or banks rather than major banks.

The claim that some have made that any bank will take a deposit is just not true.

Cheers, Kev.

doug2222usa · Post by **doug2222usa** » 10 Apr 2008 17:01

I predict your attitude will "change" radically if and when you become a Seller.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » 10 Apr 2008 17:08

doug2222usa wrote:I predict your attitude will "change" radically if and when you become a Seller.

Yes Doug, I was thinking that.
I was going to put up radio gear and radio books but there are alternatives.
Kev.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 17:08

doug2222usa wrote:
I don't know how ebay will "police" all these millions of listings.

Simple .. they will not allow the software to list it up unless you have ticked the "I accept paypal" box.

No brainer.

OUTRAGEOUS behavior.

If ebay bought FedEx and refused to allow folks to ship via anything EXCEPT FedEx is a similar analogy.

In Australia MOST folks use bank transfer to pay for ebay lots - that is why ebay is doing tihs.

They make zero fees and gouges from a bank transfer.

jrg · Post by **jrg** » 10 Apr 2008 17:13

I'm only a bush lawyer, but I suspect that forcing payment through a co-owned entity (which charges a fee for the transaction) when there are alternatives available would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act.

Looking at the mechanics of it all, I can't see it making much difference. As a purchaser, if I know the bank account details of one of my regular vendors, and I make the transfer, what is he going to do? Send it back and ask me to pay again via paypal? Not likely.

doug2222usa · Post by **doug2222usa** » 10 Apr 2008 17:17

I have no idea if this would work for you in Australia, but take a look at www.qth.com - free ham radio classifieds. I've sold items there several times.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 17:21

jrg wrote:I'm only a bush lawyer, but I suspect that forcing payment through a co-owned entity (which charges a fee for the transaction) would be a breach of the Trade Practices Act.

For years "for your own protection" ebay have outright banned anyone even MENTIONING Western Union payments.

Mention them and all your auctions get cancelled. Do it again and they NARU you.

If someone from Russia sends me $1000 by Western Union I go to my Post Office and they hand over $1000 CASH.

Best system around for overseas money transfers for larger sums from wacko countries.

When you have the CASH in your hand, you mail the goods. Simple.

PayPal has arbitrarily banned anyone using it for payment in lot wording.

So what happens .. an Indian cons me of $US5000 last year - orders via PayPal, the money arrives, and the DAY I tell him the goods have left insured post, he files an "item not received" claim with PayPal and the idiots give HIM his money back, and I lose the $US5000 in stamps.

PayPal is to be avoided at ALL costs for large $$$ transactions.
.

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » 10 Apr 2008 17:37

I've just had a look at ebay, and unless I read it wrong, when the changes come in - Paypal will hold the funds for 21 days, or until the seller gives positive feedback, to stop buyers putting in a claim of refund after the goods are sent.
Not defending paypal in anyway, just something of interest that I read.

Skippy

waroff49 · Post by **waroff49** » 10 Apr 2008 17:45

As I posted in the Stamp Discussion forum. Many European traders don't and won't use Paypal because of the fees. What will it be like when this scheme is global...?????

I think it may also give the ACCC an in, because what they are doing is creating a monopoly.

Personally, I hope it fails and their sales drop dramatically. I know my bidding will drop off, as sellers of the material I choose to buy, dont put up auction lots, there will be nothing for me to buy.

I think it will also curtail, the one or few items' sellers who won't be bothered with having to go through PayPal.

Another thought. With Paypal fees for changing currencies, there is also a rip-off, especially when they hold vast sums of the major currencies and only move the money from the left pocket to the right.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » 10 Apr 2008 17:49

Skippy wrote:I've just had a look at ebay, and unless I read it wrong, when the changes come in - PayPal will hold the funds for 21 days, or until the seller gives positive feedback, to stop buyers putting in a claim of refund after the goods are sent.
Not defending PayPal in anyway, just something of interest that I read.

Skippy

When I first started using ebay their advice was to wait until the seller posts feedback before the buyer posts. Some sellers state otherwise so I usually do not post in their favour.
Kev.

fletches1 · Post by **fletches1** » 10 Apr 2008 17:52

I always thought that Cash was Legal Tender and you were REQUIRED to accept it as payment if offered.

Notwithstanding I use Paypal a lot , together with Moneybookers for Foreign transactions. Just because it is easy.
Within Australia Bank Transfer, especially if you use Internet Banking is Just the NUMBER ONE method, safe & quick and leaves a paper trail.

Our policy on Bidferret
http://www.bidferret.com
is to allow ANY PAYMENT METHOD THE BUYER AND SELLER WANT. Plus we will ADD a new payment method button if asked.

After all it is their transaction, not ours.
I don't think I have seen ANY other site that restricts the payment method between private parties, Not Stampwants, Delcampe or Oztion.

TOTALLY RIDICULOUS, surely they can't be that stupid

Can They !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grovyk · Post by **grovyk** » 10 Apr 2008 17:54

Skippy said

I've just had a look at ebay, and unless I read it wrong, when the changes come in - Paypal will hold the funds for 21 days or until the seller gives positive feedback, to stop buyers putting in a claim of refund after the goods are sent. Not defending PayPal in anyway, just something of interest that I read.

Paypal will hold the funds for 21 days

No guesses where they will hold all that wonderful money?

Overnight money market here we come.!!

That is what all this is about.

Automatic free cash fund for 21 days
Absolutely brilliant

for ebay NOT me or the Sellers who are being ripped off all that interest.

Kev · Post by **Kev** » 10 Apr 2008 17:55

doug2222usa wrote:I have no idea if this would work for you in Australia, but take a look at www.qth.com - free ham radio classifieds. I've sold items there several times.

Thanks Doug, My guess is that postage would be too expensive to send o'seas. I'm figuring on pick up for cash. Limits the market but I do want to free up a lot of space.
Kev.

fletches1 · Post by **fletches1** » 10 Apr 2008 18:16

grovyk wrote:Skippy said
I've just had a look at ebay, and unless I read it wrong, when the changes come in - PayPal will hold the funds for 21 days or until the seller gives positive feedback, to stop buyers putting in a claim of refund after the goods are sent. Not defending PayPal in anyway, just something of interest that I read.
.

Automatic free cash fund for 21 days.

So if as a Seller you give Positive Feedback Immediately you ship lots you can get your money ??
What stops the Buyer filing a not received and it being reversed.
Don't forget that soon Sellers will not be able to leave Negative Feedback for buyers anyway. What is the point of a feedback system like that.
Surely better just to leave Feedback for the Buyers to do and not worry about feedback from Sellers, seriously if you can only leave a positive what on earth is the point??

I will definitely rethink my Paypal policy if the hold the funds for 21 Days. Something like.
"Goods Shipped AFTER Paypal funds clear"I bet that will get the Buyers to make Ebay change their mind.
But apart from that it is just playing right into the hands of the other Auction Startups.
GO BIDFERRET http://www.bidferret.com
GO OZTION http://www.oztion.com.au

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 18:44

Interestingly, I didn't get the email, and I don't have a new message in My Ebay. Are we sure this isn't spam?

Browny · Post by **Browny** » 10 Apr 2008 19:07

Howdy Sherro,
have forwarded you the email.
Looks 100% kosher to me!
Cheers.
Browny.

Browny · Post by **Browny** » 10 Apr 2008 19:13

Like John (jrg), I'm no lawyer but isn't this called "3rd line enforcing" under the trade practices act?

From my basic knowledge, there are restrictions legislating against 1 entity forcing another entity to use a 3rd party.

Would like to hear from anyone with more detailed knowledge in these matters.

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 19:29

Thanks Mal, I've replied to your email. Looks legit to me. Third Party Enforcing raised it's ugly head in our management meeting today (we're not the bad guys). This seems like the same thing to me. As Paypal is a completely separate legal entity to Ebay, I think the third party rules come into play. If Ebay and Paypal were one and the same, they could force everyone to use Paypal only, or shop somewhere else.

Do we have any legal eagles as members?

Shopping somewhere else is what a LOT of folks are going to do now.

mikestein · Post by **mikestein** » 10 Apr 2008 19:30

sherro wrote:Interestingly, I didn't get the email, and I don't have a new message in My ebay. Are we sure this isn't spam?

My Australian-registered account has had the email sent to it, but not my American-registered (with Australian address) account. The latter was created before eBay Australia existed.

I couldn't believe the email at first. I had to check it wasn't the 1st April.

And before you ask, I have 2 accounts because someone watches everything that I bid on, and I haven't got around to closing the first account yet -if that's even possible; eBay will probably try to charge a termination fee

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 19:46

Here's a couple of posts from the Ebay Paypal discussion board to be found at http://tinyurl.com/5jceb3

"I rang the ACCC just now. There was a lengthy delay on the queue. When I asked the ACCC person about the ebay payment switch, he said that they have been swamped since about lunchtime today, they are well aware of the issue, and have plenty of evidence at this stage.

He suggested making a complaint in writing to which they will respond in due course, or ring back in a day or so after their assessment team has had a chance to look at the details.

To some extent, the damage is already done. Volume sellers of high value items with healthy margins will be able to continue, but occasional sellers like me, or those with low value items might as well drop them in the landfill as give most of the sale proceeds to ebay/paypal. "

And:

"Unfortunately I think ebay will have covered themselves against action from the ACCC - they still allow cash on pickup so they aren't technically "forcing" anyone to use paypal.... The fact that 99% of sales/purchases on ebay are NOT done in person will not weigh in on this.

I think the only way that ebay will learn from this is if profits drop - ie people stop using ebay and paypal! It has been mentioned in a couple of papers that Ebay AU is just the trial market for this, to see customer reaction.... So there is a chance they will withdraw it if their profits drop.

As for me.....well I'm off to another auction site, voting with my feet.

Ebay: The most important thing for any business to remember: Look after your customers, or someone else will! "

That seems to be the general sentiment. Sellers deserting. Oztion getting a plug. It might be time for Kevin Morgan or Steve to get on and post a reference to Bidferret!

grovyk · Post by **grovyk** » 10 Apr 2008 19:46

Since ebay Australia has organized themselves offshore (they arent a Registered Australian Company) and so do not pay ANY Australian TAX, it generally follows that they arent restricted by Australian Law and regulations.

If the ATO cannt get them, no other Dept is going to have a hope of regulating them.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 19:59

sherro wrote:

"Unfortunately I think ebay will have covered themselves against action from the ACCC - they still allow cash on pickup so they aren't technically "forcing" anyone to use PayPal.... "

The way I read their edict cash is is NOT a payment option if you advertise "pick goods up only" sales:

The ebay official edict says wrote:

From 17 June you will only be able to offer PayPal on your listings and pay on pick up (i.e. paid for when picking up the item).

Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal. No other payment methods will be permitted.

fletches1 · Post by **fletches1** » 10 Apr 2008 20:00

A direct quote from the Paypal Policy Pages. Not quite ALL will be held for 21 days as indicated earlier.

Amendment to the PayPal User Agreement
Effective Date: 14 March 2008

Beginning 14 March 2008 the User Agreement will be amended as follows and now include a new section 11 dealing with "holds".

PayPal is also amending its product disclosure statement effective 14 March 2008, to include a new section entitled eBay Transaction Holds which describes the circumstances under which PayPal may hold funds received, relating to eBay transactions.

Section 11 of the User Agreement will read:

"11. PayPal's Right to Hold Funds. In order to ensure the integrity of a transaction PayPal reserves the right to hold funds or proceeds from transactions by placing them in a "pending" or hold status beyond the normal distribution period. PayPal may do this in order to mitigate risk related to transactions it considers suspicious.

eBay Transaction Holds. PayPal may, in its sole discretion, determine to place a hold on a payment you receive for an eBay transaction, based on the reasonable belief that there may be a risk associated with the transaction. Such a hold will show as "pending" in your PayPal Account. PayPal will release the eBay transaction hold after 21 days from the date the hold is placed, unless you receive a Dispute, Claim, Chargeback, or Reversal on the transaction subject to the hold, in which case PayPal may hold the payment until the matter is resolved pursuant to this Agreement. PayPal may choose to release the hold earlier if the buyer leaves positive feedback on eBay or where PayPal is otherwise satisfied that the transaction has completed successfully."

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 20:03

Because I'm an interminable stirrer, I posted this on the Paypal forum at 6.49pm

"I sell for fun (and a little profit). Fully half of my customers pay
me by bank transfer. Who the hell do ebay think they are, telling me
what payments I can and can't accept?

Oztion, bidferret, trademe, delcampe, etc etc etc. There's plenty of
other auction sites out there folks. "

A full six minutes later, my post was removed, and I got this email:

"Recently we became aware that your eBay registered account was involved in the
following activity:

Advertising merchandise, listings, services or commercial web sites, including
offers to trade, or charitable solicitations. For clarification of this policy,
please visit this page:
http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?threadID=100076617&tstart=0

which is not permitted at eBay.

We realize that you may not have been aware there was a rule against this
activity. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to invite you to
review our site policies, which can be found at:

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/community/png-board.html

Please understand our goal is to help you understand our policies to ensure
successful experiences at eBay. Therefore, we respectfully request that you
refrain from this activity in the future to avoid the possibility of a
suspension of your eBay registration.

Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.

Regards,
Susan
eBay Moderation Team"

When my current listings have finished, I'll tell them what they can do with their registration! Something about sideways!

jrg · Post by **jrg** » 10 Apr 2008 20:05

Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal.

I don't even understand this statement.

If cash is being paid on pickup, where is the paypal involvement? Surely paypal won't be charging a fee for pickups too?

krautinjapan · Post by **krautinjapan** » 10 Apr 2008 20:07

Methinks this is a test run. Things on eBay.uk are moving in the same direction.

Now, direct deposit, or whatever you guys Down Under call it, is the most popular method in the Euro zone, and Germany with its state of the art banking system (free online wire transfers within the Euro zone) is eBay's No.2 market.

PayPal takes a lot of flak on the German eBay boards, and they have decided to move to Luxembourg - out of reach for the German legal system...

Bank transfers are the No.1 method of payment for German eBay users, and eBay Oz's move to even ban bank transfers as acceptable payment option sure is a test run to walk the same line on eBay Germany.

If you guys all stick together, the test results won't be good for eBay & PayPal, and they may reverse their lemmings' march off the cliff, when they find out, that they will lose more in listing and FVF fees from disgruntled sellers than they can ever gain from additional PainPal fees.

As for the (often non-existent) "Buyer Protection" - if a buyer feels he needs to be protected from his seller, why bid in the first place???

On Yahoo Japan, where I do 95% of my selling, we don't have PainPal - Yahoo Japan offers their own card-processing system, fees to be paid by the buyer, and I have yet to hear about chargebacks, SNAD claims etc.

None of my buyers feel the need to be protected from me, first-timers look at my 5000+ record with no negs and send the equivalent of $1000s via bank or postal giro deposit.

And as far as my regular buyer at the Financial Services Agency could tell me, PainPal will never ever get a license for a Japan Branch - too many consumer complaints already on record (Japanese eBayers get messages from PainPal in Japanese, leading them to believe, that they have a branch over here...).

I do not foresee a bright future for eBay. They may favor the buyers, but what are the buyers going to buy, if all the serious sellers are giving eBay the boot? Chinese fakes?

Cheers

Goetz

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 20:22

jrg wrote:
Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal.
I don't even understand this statement.

If cash is being paid on pickup, where is the PayPal involvement? Surely PayPal won't be charging a fee for pickups too?

krautinjapan - wise points

jrg .. they way I am reading it you can only offer to sell a TV or sofa or bicycle that is to be collected IF the buyer pays by paypal. That's all it can mean surely?
.

mrboggler · Post by **mrboggler** » 10 Apr 2008 20:26

I just do not have the time at present to wade through ALL the posts on this subject,
But I think I have enough info for me to make my mind up to jump ship.
I have Bought and sold on and off for approx 10 years on e-bay
I accepted all Credit cards,cash and cheques I went over to Paypal a few years back as it was easy to use,
and I have had NO problems with it at all.I even got a full refund a coupla years back when some one I bought off Died (I think)
How ever just on principal I WILL NOT HAVE ANYONE TELL ME HOW,WHEN,or WHY I CONDUCT MY BUSINESS,
and to that end I shall be closing my shop on E-Bay asap.

as stated my Bitch is not with the system,which I find works OK,but with the Neanderthals that think they are little Tin Gods and can make me do things their way.just watch me.

Ron.(Mrboggler)

jrg · Post by **jrg** » 10 Apr 2008 20:30

Very confusing Glen.

I interpreted

From 17 June you will only be able to offer PayPal on your listings and pay on pick up (i.e.paid for when picking up the item).

to mean you can pay cash when collecting the item, as an alternative to paying by paypal and having the item sent.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 20:34

John, their next sentence was this which seems clear:

"Pay on pick up can only be offered in conjunction with PayPal. No other payment methods will be permitted."
.

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 20:37

It's all irrelevant. Are they encouraging pick-ups, and the safety and security implications that might have? Do you want strangers knowing where you live and where your goodies are kept?

I offer local pick up, but not from my house!

mrboggler · Post by **mrboggler** » 10 Apr 2008 20:52

STORE IS NOW CLOSED

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 20:55

I'm not posting on their board any more. I just got pinged again for this:

"Can someone, anyone, explain to me in plain English how payments via
Paypal are safer than deposits made directly into a bank account?

No? Didn't think so. This is a pathetic, fee-gouging rort from a
company that has completely lost touch with it's customer base.

My last post was deleted and I was threatened with deregistration
for daring to mention the opposition. I suppose the anti-competitive
nature of Ebay is shining through. Arrogance of a stupendous
magnitude. "

Apparently, you're not allowed to mention deleted posts either!

So I've emailed them this time.

"Dear Ebay, I'll tell you what I'll do.

I won't post on the discussion board ever, ever again, because it's naughty. I'll keep my mouth shut and never have an opinion on anything affecting my income and my little, home-based usiness.

Please accept my profuse apologies for bothering Ebay with my scattered, and clearly inaproppriate thoughts.

Regards"

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 20:57

MrBoggler .. if even 5% of ebay oz sellers take your stance they are in SERIOUS trouble.

Why should folks NEED to accept PayPal if bank transfers suit them perfectly well?

The transfers are MUCH safer for sellers, and are without fees of any kind.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 21:49

The ebay users chat board claim the brilliant guy who decided to change the flavour of Coca Cola, has now got hired to do ebay marketing.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 21:55

sherro wrote:Because I'm an interminable stirrer, I posted this on the PayPal forum at 6.49pm

"I sell for fun (and a little profit). Fully half of my customers pay
me by bank transfer. Who the hell do ebay think they are, telling me what payments I can and can't accept?

Oztion, bidferret, trademe, delcampe, etc etc etc. There's plenty of other auction sites out there folks. "

A full six minutes later, my post was removed, and I got this email:

"Recently we became aware that your ebay registered account was involved in the following activity:

Advertising merchandise, listings, services or commercial web sites, including offers to trade, or charitable solicitations.
which is not permitted at ebay.

<<snip>>>

Therefore, we respectfully request that you refrain from this activity in the future to avoid the possibility of a suspension of your ebay registration.

Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.

Regards,
Susan
ebay Moderation Team"

When my current listings have finished, I'll tell them what they can do with their registration! Something about sideways!

Well look at below what they have left IN!!!

My guess is most comments they have removed.

And my guess is that these WILL be, when the brass learn of them.

Glen

Code: Select all


gary6587  (780 ) View Listings | Report  28-03-08 21:52 EST  2 of 31  
op i feel sorry for you and then ebay wonders why sellers are turning away. Just be very careful with paypal as you could lose your money very easily with that firm. 

NO paypal is not protection to buyer OR sellers just a misleading ad they like people to think. 

 
topsi4  (369 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 13:50 EST  3 of 31  
I have just received an email from ebay saying that after May 21st we will not be able to offer any methods of payment other than Pay Pal. I will not use Pay Pal because of a bad experience with them years ago so this cancels me out after May 21st. I have nearly 400 transactions with 100% feedback. They have lost a good ebayer. I wonder how many others will turn away, or will most sellers slowly go back to it, using Pay Pal. 

 
xmystical_memoriesx  (135 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:03 EST  4 of 31  
I am also extremely disappointed with e bay. Wonder what the banking ombudsman and the ACCC will have to say, as I believe it is a restraint of trade, and I thought having a monopoly was now illegal in Australia. I may be wrong other members may give us advise on who to contact.

I just don't have any faith in Paypal as they now admit it can take 8 working days for e cheques to clear. When a paper cheque takes a maximum of 5. What are they doing with our money that they are holding for so long.Also the funds held in our paypal accounts should we not be receiving interest. 

 
8105penny  (432 )  View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:06 EST  5 of 31  
I'm sure I'm not allowed to say this, but try Oztion.com.au. They are an Aussie auction site with NO listing fees and much lower selling fees - AND they don't impose stupid rules on their buyers and sellers that they have to use paypal. A much better option! 

 
michaelaw6472  (309 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:07 EST  6 of 31  
This absolutely stinks. I for one am going to leave as a seller. We should organise a time of striking. They are double dipping, charging eBay fees PLUS PayPal fees. PayPal is a division of eBay. We should have a choice 

 
dulberf  (33 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:07 EST  7 of 31  
I completely agree...I hate PayPal coz not only does it cost me money to get my money, it take days for it to appear in my account, as opposed to overnight.

I must say it does seem to be a bit dodgy, especially seeing as they are marketing it under this ridiculous "Making eBay safer" cloak. All they are really doing is creating more revenue!!! 

 
xmystical_memoriesx  (135 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:14 EST  8 of 31  
I for one will be leaving ebay, just as I have built up a good little business and ordered heaps of stock which has just arrived. Just have to figure out how to get all my photos and listings on the other oz site. As I am not very computer literate. 
Does anyone know if there is an easy way I can copy my listings across?? 

 
six-sandbags  (651 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:19 EST  9 of 31  
I've just received the email also and think this will be the end of my selling days.(I really don't need the extra hassle as I don't make a lot of money out of what I sell.)I suppose this also means you can't buy without having Paypal as well.May be time to look elsewhere?

These are unedited by me and are in a running sequence as you can see, from 2 to 9 here.

http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?threadID=600084502&start=0
.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 22:29

Posting these here before ebay delete them too!

Love the guy who set up the Facebook group before he gets banned!

Oztion gets a few specific mentions which amazes me they were left in.

Code: Select all

stamps47  (2634 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:32 EST  12 of 31  
reply to number 8 of 11.
It is really simple to transfer ebay stuff to the "other site" using their new Express lister. I transfered all my store stuff and the best thing is it costs nothing. Good luck. 

 
michaelaw6472  (309 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:36 EST  13 of 31  
I have started a Facebook group for all stuff related to this PayPal change
http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php?info&gid=11239808639

Now, let's see if eBay Australia censors this thread 

 
xmystical_memoriesx  (135 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:44 EST  14 of 31  
Hi I don't use turbo lister I use auctiva can I copy them, I am looking at express lister now, but it may have to wait. My daughter runs ebay with me but she is in hospital and she is much more computer literate than me. The only problem is she may be in for quite some time. 

 
smonkey777  (17 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:47 EST  15 of 31  
More power to the people! Oztion here I come 

 
must_be_bunnies  (27 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 14:52 EST  16 of 31  
Yep, this is totally ridiculous. There are many, many buyers (and sellers for that matter) who do not feel comfortable with having to deal with online transactions that require your credit card or bank account details. I myself for a long while only felt safe using a payment methods such as Australian Post money orders, as it could be done on a cash-only basis. Yes, cash with pick-up will be allowed, but what about cases where pick-up isn't convenient or even possible? I think this is going to be a real turn-off for buyers and sellers alike.

And, like someone else said, this may be a case of eBay just "double dipping" - forcing sellers to have to pay two sets of fees on a single transaction. Sure, this mightn't make much of a difference if you're selling things upwards of $100, but when you have things selling around the five or ten dollar mark... it kind of makes you think, what's the point in making this stuff available, when I'm not even going to get back a reasonable price it, once the fees are sucked away?

Back to the days of fee-free garage and boot sales, I say! 

 
xmystical_memoriesx  (135 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:02 EST  17 of 31  
Hi I don't use turbo lister I use auctiva can I copy them across, but it may have to wait if it is too complicated. My daughter runs ebay with me but she is in hospital and she is much more computer literate than me. The only problem is she may be in for quite some time. 

 
gregd61  (93 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:15 EST  18 of 31  
I to shall be looking to alternative auction sites when I sell. I've had to make claims through Paypal and found them pretty useless...no real buyer protection. It seems illegal that they force us to use their company for payments but won't allow sellers to pass on the fees. 

 
topsi4  (369 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:18 EST  19 of 31  
This is what ebay are saying about the change to the Media:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/ebay-to-accept-cash-and-paypal-only/2008/04/09/1207420470674.html 

 
yo_linux  (71 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:37 EST  20 of 31  
I rang the ACCC just now. There was a lengthy delay on the queue. When I asked the ACCC person about the ebay payment switch, he said that they have been swamped since about lunchtime today, they are well aware of the issue, and have plenty of evidence at this stage.

He suggested making a complaint in writing to which they will respond in due course, or ring back in a day or so after their assessment team has had a chance to look at the details.

To some extent, the damage is already done. Volume sellers of high value items with healthy margins will be able to continue, but occasional sellers like me, or those with low value items might as well drop them in the landfill as give most of the sale proceeds to ebay/paypal. 

 
ant_n_bee  (68 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:43 EST  21 of 31  
Well, it's hard enough making a profit once you deduct all eBay's fees and I've heard all the horror stories about Paypal. I think it's incredibly unfair for eBay to force us to use a service that is part of them and puts yet more money into their coffers. I signed up for OZtion right after getting eBay's sickening 'We're making eBay even safer for you' message. Yeah right! That is so insulting. I won't be sticking with eBay. beadsandweeds comment is spot on... eBay really is doing the best advertising for OZtion! 
 
goodguy747  (991 )   View Listings | Report  10-04-08 15:58 EST  22 of 31  
I often wondered where that dopey executive that changed the flavour of Coca Cola went. eBay hired him! or her? 
I wouldn't worry about all this. Everyone take a 2 month holiday from eBay from June08. Like any company, they are driven by profits. Their transactions will drop along with their profits.  

I give them 8 weeks before they shove into reverse gear faster than an Iraq tank in the 1st gulf war. I get customers all the time that don't want to use Paypal even though that is all I offer in my listsing. I then email my bank details. As for Paypal protection. Been there too, costs too much to get something done, and in my instance that was with a Powerseller who had their password stolen. Took eBay a week before acting and close down the site. 

 
yo_linux  (71 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 17:24 EST  23 of 31  
Found it, I think:

"Third line forcing

Third line forcing is a specific form of exclusive dealing prohibited outright by the Trade Practices Act. It is not subject to the substantial lessening of competition test. It involves the supply of goods or services on condition that the purchaser buys goods or services from a particular third party, or a refusal to supply because the purchaser will not agree to that condition."

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/259608/fromItemId/3669#h3_40 

e.alpha_deals  (2571 )  View Listings | Report  10-04-08 18:55 EST  26 of 31  
The problem is that they are 'forcing sellers to use Paypal', I had so much problems with them back then. They once locked up nearly $5000 in my paypal account and gave it back after 6 months of locking it up.

ONLY AFTER I ASKED TOO, not automatic.

Now it is so simple and easy not to USE PAYPAL, but won't be soon.............................. 

 
jrg_from_oz  (86 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 19:16 EST  27 of 31  
Ebay, you have completely stuffed it this time. Please make yourself familiar with the laws in this country before you try to operate here from your Swiss chalet. 

Your attempt to force buyers to pay by paypal will not get past the first challenge under the Trade Practices Act. 

 
alohacoconut  (53 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 19:28 EST  28 of 31  
I will no longer sell on ebay after this policy is implemented.

The cash on pickup loophole is a joke. One of the main attractions of online selling is the potential global market you can reach. Clearly if I offer cash on pickup I'm reducing my market reach right down to my local area / city, at best. Defeats the purpose + I'm not going to be forced into potentially dangerous situations in real life by ebay. 

Ciao ebay, it was nice before you decided to shaft the very customer base that made you huge. 

 
ant_n_bee  (68 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 19:54 EST  29 of 31  
From Kovel's Komments April 9th 2008

News, News, News
EBAY TRICKS?
Rumor (checked out by Ina Steiner of AuctionBytes newsletter) is that eBay put 35,000 to 80,000 Shopping.com listings on eBay.com during the week of the boycott by sellers who were protesting some of eBay's new fees and policies. EBay denies it was trying to make the boycott look unsuccessful. They say it was a glitch in a test they were doing.

Sheesh! They wouldn't do that to us, would they??? Cheers,
ant_n_bee 

 
e.alpha_deals  (2571 )  View Listings | Report  10-04-08 20:01 EST  30 of 31  
Now I fully understand why not to let companies become too big !!! Not only do I understand, I fully feel the effect of it now.

Good Companies such as Google provides GOOD THINGS(GOOGLE EARTH) and Opportunities for humanity while they grow bigger. 

Some Evil Companies destroy people and family by giving them stress, impose restriction for their own benefits and think the world belongs to them. The big bad thing is that they grow bigger while doing so.

I find it not ethical and honorable to LURE people to follow their way and then basically dump them. In the case of ebay they ATTRACT US TO SELL ON EBAY, SELLERS GROW AND PROSPER ALONG WITH EBAY. NOW THEY ARE BASICALLY destroying their own sellers. 

 
2003krt  (197 ) View Listings | Report  10-04-08 20:34 EST  31 of 31  
Ebay has done themself no favours demanding users sell with Paypal. Whatever happened to freedom of choice? They will lose me as a customer and I hope the hoards will follow realising that they are no longer offering a service but, along with their aquisition of Paypal, they have become another money grabbing corporation at the expense of their loyal patrons.

grovyk · Post by **grovyk** » 10 Apr 2008 23:22

The mods on that forum are going to have some 'please explaining' to do tomorrow if much of that is left..

Collectorcolin has just said that U.K Ebay is doing the same thing. Given the time difference, this is might be much wider than expected.

Makes sense really - if it was an Australia only policy, then people would just shift to another region, eg U.S.A. where many ozzies are anyway.

This whole thing is so unbelievable that Im willing to bet ebay USA will go Paypal only too.

Post by **ozstamps** » 10 Apr 2008 23:31

Anyone want to lay bets that final comment #31 is there come Monday?

http://forums.ebay.com.au/thread.jspa?threadID=600084502&start=0

You appear to have little or no regard for the legions of Sellers, many of whom I hope follow my lead and desert eBay in droves. Your justification of ripping freedom of choice away from eBayers under the puerile premise of making eBay even safer reeks of totalitarianism.

The universe will look after itself; and bad Karma has a way of catching up with you. Shame eBay ... shame!!!

sherro · Post by **sherro** » 10 Apr 2008 23:44

mrboggler wrote:STORE IS NOW CLOSED

Good on you Ron. 8) Maybe I'll come in and buy something to compensate for your lost sales?

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You MUST use paypal on all sales? Am I reading this right?

You MUST use paypal on all sales? Am I reading this right?

EBay does it again...and again...and again.

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