STAMPBOARDS - Postage Stamp Chat Board and Stamp Forum

Stamp dealers buy Estate lots all the time, where folks have stored spares and duplicates in old cigarette and tobacco tins, and cigar boxes etc.

I often get dozens of them in such boxes and tins, stored away 50, 75 or 100 years back.

They are the right size for stamps, near everyone smoked, and guys of that generation were the "waste not" thinkers and threw NOTHING away!

I sold an old wooden box full of dozens of 100 year old Ogden's Guinea Gold and similar type metal tobacco tins, stuffed full of mostly unopened bundles of 100 SA stamps mostly, from a century and more back.



Someone here bought them for the stamps, to check for postmarks etc, and someone here later asked me for his contact details, so he could make an offer for the manky old tins, that I'd allowed absolutely zero for.

They did a deal this week I was advised (price unknown to me, and not any of my business) so all are happy. Except me, as I had no idea there was any value in tins in such cruddy, rusted out shape.


So ARE the tins worth anything?


What about this one above - a small size Flake Cut tobacco one from WW2 era it seems, by the warship looking photo. Same common size as the Ogden's above.

What do you think would be a fair asking price for it? i.e. if YOU had got it in a box of stamp junk, and needed to place a fair value on it, what would that price be?

Take a guess, and let's see what the consensus is.

EVERYONE can take a guess on this one, as you need have no knowledge of the subject of rusty tins whatever, as I do.

Add a comment by all means outlining your guess, and the reasons for it.

Remember you are valuing just that one empty tin - NOT the Ogden's stuff above it.

Glen

Well whatever the price is - 50¢ or $5000 - such tins as these are always collectable by many folk here and there. Even I went through a period eying off cigar tins for a while, simply for the old-timey pleasure of such a cute little historical item of nostalgia.

Would I buy them now? Well no, not necessarily, because I have proper stock books and albums in which to store my stamps. Having said that, however, I do have two cigar boxes at home filled with all kinds of little knick-knacks.

After all, a box is a box, and a nice looking box is even better, and a box is useful for storing stuff in (but I would perhaps advise against storing stamps in something so rusty!)

As to the value - is that perhaps gold on the tin? I know little about the properties of gold as a metal, but would be surprised if gold would rust that much. Perhaps, is it gold leaf on the tin which has slowly scrapped off over the many years?

Ounces? That's old-timey stuff! How big is this tin, Glen (in cm, not inches!)

A small tin? Maybe $5. A larger tin? Anything up to $20.

But by the sounds of your story its worth a whole lot more. Is it chewable 'baccy, or simply the stuff with which I can fill my pipe? Not that that'd have much say on the value, I'm sure. If the ship is anything to go by for a date, I'd say around the 1920s.

A rare limited edition tin, or product? At a guess, it wasn't available off the shelf for a regularly long period of time.

Without any additional research: $100.

I once sold a box lot of stamps to an eBayer. Some of them were in wooden (I think) tobacco boxes. He was happy with the deal, and told me that as he listed them onto eBay singly, the boxes were actually worth more than the stamps.

Looks like a great lot Glen sold, collectors love these kind of old time bundles.

Tobacco tins certainly appear to be a popular collectable, you see them around at fairs and on eBay etc, some fetching crazy prices.

Look forward to seeing this thread unfold.

Catweazle wrote:
As to the value - is that perhaps gold on the tin? I know little about the properties of gold as a metal, but would be surprised if gold would rust that much. Perhaps, is it gold leaf on the tin which has slowly scrapped off over the many years?

Ounces? That's old-timey stuff! How big is this tin, Glen (in cm, not inches!)

A small tin? Maybe $5. A larger tin? Anything up to $20.

GOLD ??????????????

You must be joking ???!!!

Well, it is the same valueless printer's "Gold Ink" as on all the Ogden's tins above! Or anything sold packaged at the time.

Even Pharmacies sold Asprins in little cheap tins like this.


So, just cheap ink. In fact the tins were disposable objects, just like Tuna cans, win bottles or cigarette packets today. They were all the same small size - about same size as a cigarette pack today.

They were made of the very CHEAPEST grade tin, far less quality and thickness of even Baked Beans or sardine type food cans.

They were designed to be used once, and tossed away. They are actually TERRIBLE things to store stamps in, and as can be seen the cheap metal corrodes and flakes badly, and THAT affects the stamps.

Wooden cigar boxes were far more savvy things to store stamps in.

Old tins and wooden boxes are highly collected, and very decorative...they do tend to be in grotty condition though.

In the USA, Americana is a hugely followed field, and people buy anything--even the iron minecars used to haul ore (and ridden in by Indiana Jones-types ), and those weigh something like 600 pounds.

The stamps look nice (and come with ancient endorsements "100 good specimens"), but I'm sure the tins turned out to be "gold" for the seller.

The image on the 'Rainbow' tin is of the first HMAS Sydney, which was launched about 1912 and was in service for about 15 (?) years - which means the tin pre-dates the Second World War.

The other thing is, that it was during WWII that most unnecessary metal articles were requisitioned for the war effort. It was about this time that cigarette packets, and spark-plug packets, (among other things) began being made from cardboard...

I would say that such a tin would be worth about $50.00, as anything to do with HMAS Sydney will be 'hot' to war/navy collectors.

Also, maritime themed items have a huge following amongst history collectors.

If the image on the tin was the 'Titanic' I would guess that it could fetch hundreds of dollars!

I said 0 because I think it's in truly awful condition and I would bin it without a second thought. I know I must be completely wrong of course but that's how I feel.

However, of the tins that you are showing Glen, there are some really nice ones.

Still, I collect too much...so I'll stick to stamps and related items...

Cheers,
Joel.

I have lots of old cigarette tins out in the Garage. Unfortunately none have stamps in them, just things like screws, old fishing hooks etc. I've always assumed they'd be worthless in any condition except pristine. Maybe it's time to have a peek on ebay and see what they sell for.

JaceStamps wrote:I have lots of old cigarette tins out in the Garage. Unfortunately none have stamps in them, just things like screws, old fishing hooks etc. I've always assumed they'd be worthless in any condition except pristine. Maybe it's time to have a peek on ebay and see what they sell for.

Ah yes...the old Imperial CUT Tobacco tins. Many of them probably still have the broken revenue stamp on them. Almost every garage or work bench in Canada has a few of those.




John A

Yes I recall a lot of these I see with stamps in them have distinct MILITARY type themes on the brands.

All soldiers I understand got a tobacco ration in WW1.

BEFORE the Great War tobacco smoking was only for the "toffs" and Gentry and not the working man.

AFTER WW1 millions got hooked, and it is a fact the incidence of lung cancer stated skyrocketing as we'd now expect.

ANYWAY .. . keep the guesses coming in folks!

librarianc wrote:

Yep, in my parents' house in Canada they have a bookcase with various tins on the shelves, and these two are included.

I voted $100-250 just because I've seen what some of these things can sell for over here, and if there is any major significance to the imagery or if it was only available for a short time or in one place, that could be woefully underestimated.

I have some knowledge on stamps but not on such boxes - I would sell it for 5 Dollars.

I will say 50 US$ based on this Ebay listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930s-Squadron-Leader-Tobacco-Tin-Hi ... 5af26da27a where seller wild-man is selling a Squadron Leader Tobacco Tin for exactly that amount.

George yes that one looks very WW1 or 20s era to me.

HOWEVER this is the pristine condition of that box -
And this is the condition of the box we are guessing the value of! Notice any minor differences?

Yes the condition is dramatically different, but the specific subject matter is also completely different, and that can make all the difference in the world, i.e., a trashed example of a very rare tin could be worth several times what a pristine example of a very common tin is worth.

Using philately as an example, all it takes is a difference in perforation, watermark, or color shade, and all other aspects being equal, to turn a $5 item into a $500 or $5,000 item. I'm sure the same thing occurs in other collectibles.

Ah yes the condition isn't "quite as good" as the Ebay one . Think I need new glasses! Perhaps rather alot less than 50 dollars then. Could always give it a scrub!

Philexx wrote:
Could always give it a scrub!

Ha!

These tins were disposable - like gum wrappers. One time use.

They used THE thinnest cheapest tin plate they could source. Try scrubbing the rusty one and your brush would go though it in a second.

I found one in ebay which sold for AU $2,264.98 not sure if it was a rigged auction.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VINTAGE-RAINBOW-FLAKE-CUT-TOBACCO-TIN ... 1394084443

did some googling... and saw HMAS Sydney is something special in Australian Naval history, you can read about it in the Wiki below

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Sydney_(D48)

Now the images Glen had posted and the one i found in ebay looks similar... guess Glen already knew about this sale !

Wish I had one to exchange for some pretty Jaipur & Travancore Uglies

Cheers !
Back2Philately

There's a similar tin here (well from the same company and same age I think, pictured next to an image of your Rainbow tin), which is listed as having been sold for 480 Australian $ on Ebay:
http://aussietobaccotins.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Fancourt%20Tobacco%20Ltd%2c%20Sydney

The Rainbow Tobacco tin in my opinion would probably cost about $25 - $50 as it being a piece of wartime history.

The light cruiser shown on the lid was the ill-fated HMAS Sydney that was sunk on 19th November 1941 when it was attacked by the German raider Kormoran, the Kormoran also sank. The Sydney took its entire complement of 645 sailors on board to their watery graves.

The tin was either made as a memorial to the fate of the cruiser or it was to commemorate the launching of the Sydney on September 22nd 1934.

back2philately wrote: I found one in ebay which sold for AU $2,264.98

I can't see why a person would want to depart that much hard cash for a seemingly rusty little tin; I'm sure they are still as common now as they were during WWII.

Rob1956 wrote:I can't see why a person would want to depart that much hard cash for a seemingly rusty little tin; I'm sure they are still as common now as they were during WWII.

I can't see why a person would want to depart that much hard cash for a tiny scrap of paper used on envelopes; I'm sure they are still as common now as they were during WWII.

Beauty and scarcity is in the eye of the beholder.

With a tiny scrap of paper if it has considerable wear and signs of rusting it would be rendered virtually useless, wouldn't that also apply to a tin that is showing considerable signs of wear and rusting. Unless it's as rare as the 1856 British Guiana1¢ Black on Magenta.

"Beauty and scarcity is in the eye of the beholder." I couldn't agree with you more revenuecollector.
But there is also another saying - "A fool and his money are soon parted."

I suspect that many of these tins are actually pre WW1. Closer to the age of the stamps.
I wouldn't be surprised if like some stamps the value of the first tin is enhanced by the overprint.

I'll need to pry my foot out of my mouth; I was commenting on the wrong Sydney. The ship depicted on the tin is the original Sydney that took on the Emden.
But I still fail to see anyone actually buying one for $2,265

Well it's certainly worth more than I thought.

Know I just need to find out why

Years ago I saw a nondescript biscuit/chocolate type tin sell for around $2,000. Some of these are very collectible. I have some nice chocolate boxes in the garage I picked up at a clearing sale in a box lot including a Hoadley's Pagoda Chocolate box.

The H.M.A.S. Sydney tin would be very collectible, but rarity may be another matter.

My guess is in.

Here is a recent sale of an empty chocolate 'counter box'.

Rob1956 wrote:With a tiny scrap of paper if it has considerable wear and signs of rusting it would be rendered virtually useless, wouldn't that also apply to a tin that is showing considerable signs of wear and rusting.

Heavily damaged scarce stamps sell for large sums every day of the year. If a stamp catalogs thousands of dollars, people constantly pay 2-5% for mangled examples just to fill the album space. Why wouldn't the same be true for other collectibles?

Bottom line is that *YOU* don't perceive the tin as having any value, and *YOU* think that to pay such an amount for an old worn out tin is ludicrous, but the same is likely said by nonphilatelists looking at what people pay for stamps.

Just because you personally find the item worthless doesn't mean it is.

revenuecollector I see what you mean.

I also have noticed that eBay is well known for sellers fleecing buyers with exorbitant bidding prices.

I've noticed some tins have been sold in private auctions for as much as $650. As for all vintage ephemera, prices can be quite high as a result of scarcity and demand.

Rob1956 wrote:I also have noticed that eBay is well known for sellers fleecing buyers with exorbitant bidding prices.

???

How do sellers "fleece" buyers with high bidding prices?

1. No one forces anyone to buy.

2. If it's a fixed price listing either with or without Best Offer, a buyer can choose to walk away from the former or make an offer on the latter.

3. If it's an auction, it takes two to tango. The BUYERS dictate the end result, not the seller.

The only possible scenario where a buyer is being "fleeced" is if a seller is engaging in shill bidding on an auction, and that is by FAR the exception rather than the rule.

I would argue that buyers on eBay have far more leverage and ability to dictate terms than on any other venue. If anything, it is sellers that frequently are the ones that get fleeced....

A good dealer friend collects all things to do with HMAS Sydney – mostly stamps and medals etc, but other things that catch his eye.

He is a member here and I'll pass this thread on to him.

He saw the nearby little rusted out tobacco tin offered on ebay last week with a low start price, and thought he’d like it.

Start price was only $12, and seller guessed the tin was 1930s. It had the HMAS Sydney boat on lid of box as you can see. Auction was Feb 16.

The box was in pretty appalling rusted condition, but attracted 27 bids and went for $A2,264.98.

It is ebay of course, so the words "totally stuffed condition" are never permitted to be used by sellers, and we see this clown dutifully describing it as "in excellent condition for it's age"

Only on ebay. You can buy a £2 First Watermark Kangaroo used for that kind of money.

Auction was February 16 and lot number is 261394084443 for anyone interested. Ebay seller was “decodetails” who must have wondered what went on!

He was obviously clearing out an oldie’s house, and near all the other ancient tat was selling for a few dollars an item in most cases.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-RAINBOW-FLAKE-CUT-TOBACCO ... true&rt=nc

Sadly every party needs a pooper and back2philately managed that a few minutes after I hit the sack, blurting out the ebay link.

To that point there had been 30 guesses and not ONE was correct.

Indeed a quarter of all votes even to now, guessed it was worth only the $10-$25 region.

That I must confess is more than I'd have rated it, as as I in the past have placed zero value on such old cigarette tins.

So the buyer of my Ogden's lot did a lot better than he imagined it seems!

Glen

I know when I'm wrong revenuecollector, thanks for the info.

Incredible for a tatty old tin. I assume it was the HMAS Sydney that made it collectable rather than it being a rare style/manufacturer

Somewhere I still have a small box of similar tins from that era that were full of stamps.

The stamps I have since gone through (found some nice States cancels amongst them) but I saved the old tins just because they looked collectable (though a bit worn and aged).

Now the search begins

Well Global Administrator, that little bit of information about a rusty little tin going for $A2,264.98 sure put egg on my face; I'll no longer judge a tin by it's looks.

Lakatoi 4 wrote:
Now the search begins

Yes dig them out and let us know.

I have a hunch over the years I've unwittingly sold more value in the tins, than in the stamp junk inside!

As the buyer of the Ogden's lot from Glen I can only say - where was my "Rainbow"?

I did indeed sell 4 of the tins to a guy in the UK for $120 which I was quite happy about, considering I got them for "nothing" with the stamps I was paying for.

Will now put the others on Ebay and keep my fingers crossed

Thanks Glen for your help all round

regards

Tony

Rob1956 wrote:
I also have noticed that eBay is well known for sellers fleecing buyers with exorbitant bidding prices.

To be fair, this seller is not to blame for the frenzy of 'HMAS Sydney' nuts clearly having FAR more more money than sense!

In 20 years when it has totally rusted out, and is in a little pile or flakey ferrous powder, their $2,264 will look like money VERY dumbly spent!

The used £2 1913 Roo, for the same money, will appear the FAR better bet. As it will be $10,000 then.

Seller used the standard in the ebay world wildly over-described condition grade - "in excellent condition for it's age" - but other than that, started pretty low, and the 'HMAS Sydney' Bunnies did the rest!

Glen

I understand Glen, and it would have been a wiser choice to buy the £2 1913 Roo.

Sheesh! I have had more than one cigarette tin, cigar box, even matchboxes and "junk" protection pass through my hands over many years of buying junk lots.

I binned the lot after removing the stamps.

Remind me to shoot myself tomorrow.

Norm

Global Administrator wrote: Sadly every party needs a pooper and back2philately managed that a few minutes after I hit the sack, blurting out the ebay link.
Glen

Well Research comes naturally in this hobby

Hi

I was the "H.M.A.S. Sydney nut" who sent Glen the link to this tin.

I collect war medals, postcards, medallions, badges, souvenirs etc relating to the Sydney and to the Emden, the ship the Sydney fought off the Cocos Islands in 1914.

I was watching it with the hope of buying it but was completely blown out of the water with the price.

There were 4 different bidders over $1000 so not just 2 buyers getting carried away.

The tin was listed in the Ebay category of Tobacco not Militaria.

The 4 top bidders were not known to me as collectors of H.M.A.S. Sydney
memorabilia (you can't see their complete usernames but the *--* substitutes
are constant and feedback score does not relate to those I have recorded).

Therefore I believe the buyer was a collector of cigarette tins, not militaria - I
may be wrong there).

Last week on Ebay a "desk set" of inkwells, pen stand etc made from wood from the original ship (with confirming plaque) listed in Militaria sold for only $100 or so.

This shows that there are rare, sought after items in every area of collecting.

The other night on TV I saw where an original 1959 Barbie doll sold for over US $3500, despite not being in perfect condition, and without it's original box.

My wife collects antique dolls. I have seen a rare Bru doll sell at auction for $20,000 that looked no different (to me) than a similar one that sold for $300.

A friend of mine has paid $1000 for a rare rabbit trap, despite common ones selling for a little as $20.

A Swedish stamp, re-perforated at the top and of disputed origin (supposedly) sold for $3 million?

The British Guiana 1856 1c to be auctioned soon is expected to sell for millions.
I saw the stamp at an International exhibition in Madrid in 1975 and I expect that the past 39 years will not have improved it's terrible condition.

I would expect that the buyer of the cigarette tin would carefully reduce some of the rust and would stabilise the remaining.

Glen is right that a nice 1st watermark £2 roo would be a great investment but I would suggest that the buyer of the tin would not care in the slightest.

Knowledge is Power!

(now where have I read that before? )

Duncan

Hi Duncan

My mother (who just turned 84) still has her porcelain doll her mother gave her when she was 10 in 1940.

My grandmother was given the doll when she was 7 by my great-grandmother (1919). It still is in near perfect condition with the original pink and white silk and lace clothing.

It is always placed sitting up on her bed and is a crime punishable by a good clip under the ear if any of us approached anywhere near the bedroom door (the penalty exists to this very day).

Hi Rob

Good to hear of the doll.

Like many other hobbies, doll collecting has declined, with very few collectors under 50 (sound familiar?).

My wife now buys dolls for well under half that she used to pay 30 years ago.

Duncan

True cazna, these types of ephemera is a fading interest, though the much older generation will protect their old dolls like a guard dog. My older sister when she was 6 somehow got hold of one other doll (mum originally had two).

This particular doll was given to her by her mother-in-law a few years before the old girl died in 1963, it belonged to her ancestor back in 1871, also in near perfect condition and I believe also made of porcelain, porcelain dolls dropped from 4 metres out of a window onto a cement path led my mother to guard the bigger doll with an iron hand.

Your original post showed some unusual prices for unusual things; a rare rabbit trap, now that's a new one for me. I believe the British Guiana 1856 stamp is expecting to be sold for a minimum $20 million, although I have never seen the stamp up front, by the images on google it's very hard to see the design, but then stamps have been sold for millions before, even though I'd question the sanity of the buyer, he can say "well it's the only one in the world and I have it all to myself."

Sotheby's is claiming $10-20 million for the British Guiana stamp, but they're clearly puffing the piece. Its condition has deteriorated greatly in the last half century.

Yes, it's unique, but it looks like a P.O.S. If someone shells out bozobucks for it, it will be more for the story and bragging rights than the actual stamp itself, IMO.

The words "British made by British Labor" caught my attention.

BTW, why "Labor" and not "Labour" since the latter is the proper British spelling?

It just dawned on me that my late father (passed away in 1977) brought back a few cigarette tins from his service in the Middle east whilst serving in parts of Africa, including Tobruk in Libya. Mum still has those tins in an old 1940s wooden tool cabinet in her shed. I'm sure they were common at the time he returned from service.

When I have a chance of visiting her in Queensland I'm going to photograph (and bring back) the tins. My parents got on like two cats tied by their tails and thrown over a clothes line wire. There'll be no iron hand security over those little metal items of interest.