Four months ago, I listed an auction on Ebay selling an Xbox 360 - This sold for £170 on the buy it now clause. It was specifically listed on the auction as "NTSC" - and the person who bought the item emailed me asking if it would play UK games to which I replied with "no, it would only play US games unless you get it modded". He had already paid for it with Paypal and within the week, it had cleared, funds into my bank account, and the item was sent.

Two weeks ago, I receive a charge back stating that the person who paid for the item, never once received the item and it was "fraudulent use of his credit card". Paypal have now taken £170 plus interest out of my paypal account and require me to bring the account back into the black.

The person who bought the console has never once emailed me to complain of anything, no negative feedback etc - and once I received the email from Paypal stating a chargeback had been lodged, they asked me to give them details of the transaction of which I promptly did so.

The guy must have received the console as there was a note on the parcel if undelivered, return to sender....and it was never returned, and it was also recorded too - although I have lost my receipt.

In a nutshell, this chap is trying to con me - he is denying making a payment for the console as it was "fraudulent use of his card", but yet he has never said he was going to return the console - I have had no contact whatsoever from him.

Now I have paypal on my back demanding me to pay this money, and I am refusing to do so as I have done nothing wrong - what can I do?

Any advice would be greatly appriciated, as I cannot afford to pay this debt - I have got the auction page as proof

Stick to your guns, send all info and waht you have said here to Paypal. they wont take you to court or anything but may block your account until it is sorted.

Good luck.

I imagine you could get the police involved too

I take it you have a tracking number for the parcel? If so, update your paypal dispute. From what I know, paypal always favours the sellers providing a tracking number is issued.

Failing that, the buyer usually wins (with past experience and many years of ebaying!)

I def wouldnt backdown as you have sold an item with good intentions .. if the card was used and was stolen or whatever, that's ebays problem not yours. (this bit is what i think anyway)

Four months ago, I listed an auction on Ebay selling an Xbox 360 - This sold for £170 on the buy it now clause. It was specifically listed on the auction as "NTSC" - and the person who bought the item emailed me asking if it would play UK games to which I replied with "no, it would only play US games unless you get it modded". He had already paid for it with Paypal and within the week, it had cleared, funds into my bank account, and the item was sent.

 

Two weeks ago, I receive a charge back stating that the person who paid for the item, never once received the item and it was "fraudulent use of his credit card". Paypal have now taken £170 plus interest out of my paypal account and require me to bring the account back into the black.

 

The person who bought the console has never once emailed me to complain of anything, no negative feedback etc - and once I received the email from Paypal stating a chargeback had been lodged, they asked me to give them details of the transaction of which I promptly did so.

 

The guy must have received the console as there was a note on the parcel if undelivered, return to sender....and it was never returned, and it was also recorded too - although I have lost my receipt.

 

In a nutshell, this chap is trying to con me - he is denying making a payment for the console as it was "fraudulent use of his card", but yet he has never said he was going to return the console - I have had no contact whatsoever from him.

 

Now I have paypal on my back demanding me to pay this money, and I am refusing to do so as I have done nothing wrong - what can I do?

 

Any advice would be greatly appriciated, as I cannot afford to pay this debt - I have got the auction page as proof

Extremely common problem. Write Paypal a letter to their London address demanding a written response [do not respond to their e-mails] together with a copy of the delivery receipt. Demand the response within 8 weeks, threatening to take them to court or the Financial Ombudsman Service.

At 8 weeks they'll either have not responded or have sent you some jargon refusing. Make a complaint on the FOS complaint form [download it from http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk]. Within it ask for the total amount claimed [or if not paid back then to be waived and no damage on your credit record] plus compensation for the aggravation caused by Paypal's negligence in dealing with the obvious [problem] artist.

Within a few months you'll have the money back. They'll either pay it back to your Paypal account or if you have - smartly - closed your account by then insist on paying it to your bank account because allegedly they don't have any chequebooks. Accept and it's over.

One friend has had it twice and another once. In Which? they have had a few articles with a similar problem and the same solution.

Paypal are voluntarily under the jurisdiction of the FOS despite being now based elsewhere in Europe [Lichtenstein I believe]. Each complaint that reaches the Adjudicator will cost 'em £450, so is better than via court.

Ignore this please, I responded to the wrong thread.

Ahh , well I have been communicating with paypal via their [email protected] email address - I have sent them the following email.

"

With respective use of fraudulent credit card and debit to my paypal account, please be aware that any future attempt to remove monies from my bank account is nothing less then technical fraud. The goods previously stated were sent by 48 hour special delivery, and require a signiture to accept delivery - the recepient therefore received the goods. If he beleived that the goods were not his, he should have returned to "name and address" being me, to quiery the delivery or not sign for the goods. It appears to me that not only has the recepient been compensated by his bank, but he also possess the goods, and I am suffering the consequences of his banks neglegence and paypals needs to recover the goods.

It appears that I am paying the consequence for someone elses fraud. I dont know anyone who would be stupid enough to put their own name and address on the goods if they were to commit fraud.

In summery, the recepient has the goods, and has been compensated by his bank. His bank and paypal have no responsibility to which I am minus an xbox 360, and potentially around 195 pounds due to the interest that you have also added to my account.

Please refer to the recepients ebay account which I will provide you with a link below for you to access and see that the recepient has been taking part in fraudulent activity.

Please look at this in a sensible light and remove the negative amount from my account and draw a line under this unsavoury issue. "

The chaps ebay username was j.tyson_123 and surprise surprise the account is no longer active, and that he has 3 negative feedback, one of which stating he is a fraudster - and the only positive feedback he had , was one I left - as I smelt a rat even after he had paid for the item, I left a comment about the console being NTSC so he couldnt come back with that as an excuse, although I never saw this fraud coming into play as he had no feedback at the time.

If they waved the charges - and put my account to zero, would they compensate? I mean I have done sod all wrong here..... I am the one being made out to be commiting the fraud.

I specifically recommended that you write to them by post and not by e-mail because the e-mail goes through to their customer 'support' as opposed to the UK/Ireland team that should deal with it.

You will most likely get compensation if the bank refuses to refund it and you take it to the FOS, on the basis that they have refused, but if they agree then you don't get compensation.

Don't deal with Paypal if you know what's good for you - just my piece of advice for the day!

cheers Pickle - yeah I have established not to use paypal again lol. Ihad already emailed that to Paypal BEFORE you had told me , so it wasnt a case of me thinking I had better judgement, I just thought id better say as you have tried to help - which is greatly appriciated mate.

Thanks, nice to be appreciated

Read a bit of Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system! for just some of Paypal gets up to. I think they are definitely down there with the worst financial services companies on the face of this planet.

I have used Moneybookers and had no trouble. A limitation I had was that they limit you to 3 cards and they can't be deleted, only expire, so when I changed cards I didn't have what to put on. But I called them - on their unfortunate 09 number, the only problem I had with them - and they sorted it out for me. Paypal would have left me screaming for mercy!!!

Thanks, nice to be appreciated

 

Read a bit of Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system! for just some of Paypal gets up to.

I get this message from my security when I try to access this site.

 

Danger: AVG Search-Shield has detected active threats on this page and has blocked access for your protection.

 

 

The page you are trying to access has been identified as a known exploit, phishing, or social engineering web site and therefore has been blocked for your safety. Without protection, such as that in the AVG Security Toolbar and AVG, your computer is at risk of being compromised, corrupted or having your identity stolen. Please follow one of the suggestions below to continue.

I get this message from my security when I try to access this site.

Yahoo! mail also refuses links to Welcome to PayPalSucks.com, PayPal Lawsuit, PayPal Alternative, PayPal Complaints, Fraud & Evil behind the PayPal system!. I visit the site almost daily and have no problems, so I would bypass AVG.

Most likely they're being paid off by Paypal or threatened by them! Even more reason not to use Paypal in my opinion !!!

The Paypal conspiricy gets deeper ! I will bypass it then.

I have just sold a few items on ebay, and I especially liked the bit at the end that said I had to offer Paypal as I have had limited sales with them, I suppose you could call over 500 items limited in their terms.... my listing stated that 'although I have to offer Paypal to bump up ebay's profit margin, I will offer a DISCOUNT to anyone who paid by my other methods shown, do not confuse it with a surcharge as I do not add anything onto the invoice charge for paying by Paypal', surprisingly, nobody paid me by Paypal lol!

The Paypal conspiricy gets deeper ! I will bypass it then.

 

I have just sold a few items on ebay, and I especially liked the bit at the end that said I had to offer Paypal as I have had limited sales with them, I suppose you could call over 500 items limited in their terms.... my listing stated that 'although I have to offer Paypal to bump up ebay's profit margin, I will offer a DISCOUNT to anyone who paid by my other methods shown, do not confuse it with a surcharge as I do not add anything onto the invoice charge for paying by Paypal', surprisingly, nobody paid me by Paypal lol!

A friend did that and got barred from eBay. Be careful, they will do anything to screw anybody over!

Really? I didn't think I was breaking any rules by adding a discount, but I suppose that ebay don't do rules, even their own anyway!

I'm not bothered if they close my account, I have a spare one for emergencies (have sold all my hubbys old footie shirts, trainers he doesn't wear and still in box, jeans, shirts and t-shirts on it, he still hasn't noticed and it paid for my last Christmas girls night out lol), but it does make you want to rip your hair out.

Thanks for the warning legal pickle, I might add that onto the checkout bit so I won't get reported!

Really? I didn't think I was breaking any rules by adding a discount, but I suppose that ebay don't do rules, even their own anyway!

 

I'm not bothered if they close my account, I have a spare one for emergencies (have sold all my hubbys old footie shirts, trainers he doesn't wear and still in box, jeans, shirts and t-shirts on it, he still hasn't noticed and it paid for my last Christmas girls night out lol), but it does make you want to rip your hair out.

 

Thanks for the warning legal pickle, I might add that onto the checkout bit so I won't get reported!

Be careful! eBay have been known to cancel spouse accounts of barred customers and accounts where they suspect - without any evidence - that a barred customer is using another customers account.

Well I have just had a couple of auctions that have finished, so will be more careful next time, I'll have to think up a cunning plan lol!

Thanks again

Well I have just had a couple of auctions that have finished, so will be more careful next time, I'll have to think up a cunning plan lol!

 

Thanks again

No probs. Good luck!

Folks - an update on the situation......

Even though my xbox was sent on recorded signed for 48 hour delivery which I stress, had to be signed for, the fact that the ebay user had been barred from ebay for fraudulent activity as seen in his feedback, and the fact that I put my name and address on the parcel stating "if none delivery, return to Scott Frazer etc etc etc...... being my real address...........

"Dear scott frazer,

As you know, we have been using the information you provided to dispute a

chargeback filed against the transaction detailed below. Despite our best

efforts, the buyer's credit card company decided in favour of the buyer.

Unfortunately, we do not control the outcome of the chargeback decision

reached by the buyer's issuing bank in a credit card transaction. By

accepting the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, you agreed to accept the

decision of the issuing bank as final and legally binding for this type of

dispute.

Please review the information below for more details about this case.

"

What next folks?

So his bank has repaid him the £170, what about yours have you had the £170 deducted from your account? If they have I would speak to your bank pronto! Also if they have been repaid by their bank, Paypal now have no gripe with you?

Folks - an update on the situation......

 

Even though my xbox was sent on recorded signed for 48 hour delivery which I stress, had to be signed for, the fact that the ebay user had been barred from ebay for fraudulent activity as seen in his feedback, and the fact that I put my name and address on the parcel stating "if none delivery, return to Scott Frazer etc etc etc...... being my real address...........

 

"Dear scott frazer,

 

As you know, we have been using the information you provided to dispute a

chargeback filed against the transaction detailed below. Despite our best

efforts, the buyer's credit card company decided in favour of the buyer.

 

Unfortunately, we do not control the outcome of the chargeback decision

reached by the buyer's issuing bank in a credit card transaction. By

accepting the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, you agreed to accept the

decision of the issuing bank as final and legally binding for this type of

dispute.

 

Please review the information below for more details about this case.

"

 

What next folks?

Read my message above. It tells you what to do. Paypal won't give in till it goes to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

What has happened.....is that according to paypal from their email - The fraudster has had his money refunded by his bank - who subsequently charged paypal, and paypal are wanting to recover the funds from me.........

Also what is highly unusual, is that the time constraint that paypal have given me to debit the account is as follows..........

"None"

They are telling me to pay the money into the account, but have not stated when its got to be in there by......surely this is the way out of it?

What has happened.....is that according to paypal from their email - The fraudster has had his money refunded by his bank - who subsequently charged paypal, and paypal are wanting to recover the funds from me.........

 

Also what is highly unusual, is that the time constraint that paypal have given me to debit the account is as follows..........

 

"None"

 

They are telling me to pay the money into the account, but have not stated when its got to be in there by......surely this is the way out of it?

I understand what has happened and repeat my recommendation to write them a letter to their UK office and then take it to the Financial Ombudsman Service when they refuse to refund it.

That is interesting but with Paypal is not a way out of it. You need to sort out the matter once and for all, or if Paypal realize their mistake they will deal with it later and you'll be screwed then.

Follow my advice and keep us posted.

If you need help articulating the letter and complaint parts of the FOS form, then I'm happy to try and help.

If you could help me with the letter mate, that would be great, im not the best in the world with my terminology

If you could help me with the letter mate, that would be great, im not the best in the world with my terminology

Ok Scott, here goes.

You will need to fill it in with all the relevant personal information. Once you have done so - due to the confidential information - I am happy to go through it with you by PM.

Then send it to them by special delivery and wait till the 8 weeks are up or you get a refusal from them by post, then it's to the Financial Ombudsman Service and before too long you should have your hard earned dough back.

Before others correct me and say that Paypal is actually a different company now based somewhere else in Europe - Liechtenstein I believe - yes, you are right, but they answer all the mail at the London address and it saves money, so better write to their with this company name - which was the company that used to operate Paypal till everything was transferred to another European company.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Paypal (Europe) Ltd,

Hotham House,

1 Heron Square,

Richmond upon Thames,

Surrey,

TW9 1EJ

To Whom It Should Concern:

I am writing as with regards to my Paypal with the registered e-mail address: . I demand a written response to this letter, as is my legal right.

I sold an item on eBay [] on to and received payment of £170 via Paypal on . The item was then dispatched via Royal Mail – 1st Class Recorded.

The buyer disputed the payment, and I was asked by Paypal to provide the tracking number of the delivery, which I did. Paypal refused to cancel the dispute, despite my evidence that the buyer had actually received the item on .

This buyer has fleeced several other buyers prior to fleecing me. It is therefore Paypal’s duty together with eBay to ban such buyers and make sure that they do not get away with such scams.

If Paypal had presented the evidence to the buyer’s financial institution they would have been obligated to stop their client from carrying out such a fraud, but instead Paypal seem – from this and colleague’s experiences – convinced that they must assist people in fleecing their biggest customers – those people who accept Paypal payments for selling their items, without whom their would be no Paypal.

I therefore demand written response [i.e. not by e-mail] together with a full refund within 8 weeks or I will either take the matter forward via the Financial Ombudsman Service seek compensation or via the courts seeking interest [at 8% per annum pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984] and court fees.

Sincerely,

Scott Frazer