I wonder if...

... Keenan McCardell still calls Greg Lloyd on the phone? "Hey Greg, it's
you know who... guess what I'm looking at right now... it's round... it's
gold... it's got some big ass diamonds on it... are you jealous? DON'T YOU
WISH YOU HAD ONE, YOU SONOFABITCH!!! THAT'LL TEACH YOU TO BLINDSIDE PEOPLE,
YOU MO... <censored> <censored> <censored>!"
"Out." <click>

"El Guapo" <plet...@pinatas.com> wrote in message news:<A9IPa.38377$H17.11978@sccrnsc02>...

I don't know, but I heard he called Coughlin and said, "Thanks for
lying to me about 'taking care of me' and cutting me instead. Since
you have been proven as a man who doesn't honor his word, I've one
this shinny ring from a coach who I can believe in instead of loath.
Maybe you should study Gruden and try to learn from him since all you
did was waste a bunch of talent with ineffective leadership."

As far as Lloyd goes, I do know this: ever since Lloyd taught KM a
lesson about cheap shotting LBs, and payback there of, KM hasn't been
diving into LBs knees from behind anymore like he did in CLE into the
*back* of Chad Browns knees after a play was over. Nothing like a
lesson learned, and it seems like Lloyd was a fine teacher. Maybe KM
should thank him. It's all worked out for KM since the lesson was
taught.

Will you get off this Coughlin crap already. Talk about beating a dead
horse. Let the season start and TC will be forgotten (the bad part anyway).
In fact the only one who brings up TC is you and you aren't even a fan.
"Seathree Peoman" <seathre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5899c6c6.0307...@posting.google.com...

"Daryl Grier" <d_g...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<_HbQa.10361$pO5....@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com>...

Wait. El's allowed to bring up a Greg Lloyd incident that happened 5
years agao and I can't bring up TC who is less than a year removed?

Chuck, the difference here is that El doesn't bring up Lloyd and his
cheap hitting, wife threatening ways every 4th post. TC is gone and the
Del Dude is now running the show. There is a difference and Daryl is
right. TC is gone and a new era has begun.

El doesn't seem to dwell on Lloyd and brought it up in a humoreous way;
on the other hand you do seem a bit obsessed with TC even thought he no
longer is in charge of the team and the Del Dude seems to be putting his
mark on the new team.

GaryB

In article <5899c6c6.03071...@posting.google.com>,
seathre...@hotmail.com says...

GaryB <gbab...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<MPG.197baaf61...@news.jax.bellsouth.net>...

I am sure everyone would just love to not bring up things I was right
about and they were wrong about, for sure. I was attacked for
believing TC was doing poorly on certain fronts. Now we aren't allowed
to bring it up? The TC dark cloud killed the spirit of this team, and
those who claimed that was not true just don't want to ever address
that issue.

I know many want to sweep the TC assertions under the rug because they
were in denial to begin with. The Lloyd scenario is far more outdated
than any TC issue. We have yet to see even a preseason snap under a
non TC team in the franchise history. Lloyd has been out of the game
for, what, 6 years?

"Blink" <n...@no.com> wrote in message
news:v3j4hvcripnqdlph4...@4ax.com...
> On 14 Jul 2003 03:39:29 GMT, fathom <fat...@subdimension.com> wrote:
>
> >GaryB <gbab...@bellsouth.net> wrote in
> >news:MPG.197baaf61...@news.jax.bellsouth.net:> >I heard that PGH is considering Coughlin as their next coach.
> >Rooney told Cowher that he has to bring a Championship to Pgh,
> >or he'll be demoted to Special Teams Assistant under Head Coach
> >Coughlin.
>
> If Rooney was that desperate for a Championship, why would he bring in
> Coughlin?
>
>
Simple. Sportswriters and other coaches respected Coughlin as a highly
effective coach. Coughlin's role in cap management was his downfall. We
know (because Chuck says so) that Rooney is a master at cap management.
So..... an effective coach teamed with an effective cap manager equals
winning football. It would actually be a great fit. I hope it never
happens, because it would put the Steelers at the top of the heap.

Please don't go back to your MORON ways. You have been tolerable as of
late. Let's keep that way shall we.news:5899c6c6.03071...@posting.google.com...

You miss the point entirely. The point is, why keep saying the same
things over and over? Isn't once or twice enough? It's not a matter of
bringing it up... it's a matter of obsessing on it. Besides, what's the
point? TC is gone. Every knows his record both the good and bad of it.
It's like of like the KS stuff in the Steelers NG. Stewart is in Chicago
now but you still see almost daily posts about him. To what end?

Actually the talk is that Atlanta may be interested in TC if the Birds
don't make the some noise in the playoffs this year.

GaryB
In article <v3j4hvcripnqdlph4...@4ax.com>, n...@no.com
says...

I believe he is more obsessed with being right than he is with TC. He has
an obvious personality dysfunction.news:MPG.197e138d8...@news.jax.bellsouth.net...

news:ulb6hvcrl018g90rn...@4ax.com...> Sportswriters and other coaches respect Cowher as a highly effective> If Coughlin couldn't win by throwing all that money around, then it's
> unlikely he'll do any better than Cowher in Pittsburgh. Cowher, at
> least, has made it to the SB. Cowher's only down years (98-99) came
> when teams like your mismanaging Jaguars had been snapping up all of
> the Steelers big name free agents to contracts they couldn't afford.
> Most of these teams have gone through or are going through cap hell
> like your mismanaging Jaguars because of these types of signings. So
> Coughlin isn't alone in having to deal with sub-par talent.
>
> Plus, the Steelers have a veteran core and Coughlin's antics won't go
> over well with them just like they didn't as Jacksonville's core
> matured. Coughlin is at best a decent college coach. Finally,
> Cowher's biggest problem is his inability to push his team over the
> top come playoff time. That's a problem he shares with Coughlin.
> Basically, dumping Cowher for Coughlin would be a downgrade.
>

Most of your comments support my position. Many sportswriters and head
coaches have stated publicly that TC's best coaching job was probably in his
last year, taking a team seriously lacking in talent to six wins. And being
competitive in most of the games that were lost. Where is it written that
players have to love their head coach to play well? Coughlin got more out
of the talent he had available than most other coaches could.

Your just not getting it. This isn't 1965. No, players don't have to
"love their coach" in order for the team to be well coached, but gone
are the day where the players can be treated like dogs, without any
redeeming qualities from their coach, and expect to be competitive.
Check it. Run through you mind of who today's top coaches are and ask
yourself, "do the players like this coach, in general, more than NFL
players could stomach TC's act."

Parcells - hard on players but has a legion of players who want to
follow and play for him. Obviously has major redeeming qualities or he
wouldn't have such a vast amount of "Parcell guys." If TC came back,
how many players around the league would want to be traded where ever
he was? I am thinking somewhere around ZERO.

Fisher - players love him

Cowher - players lover him

Billick - same

Belichick - same

Shannahan - ditto

Vermiel - His players LOVE this guy, going back to high school and
college players.

Even the original, ultimate red @ss, Lombardi, had most of his players
just LOVE him for eternity. To this day, they are still talking about
how much they love the guy.

Does TC have this same following, to any degree whatsoever?

There you have it.

Check it.

For reezie.

IN a league wide rap off, TC loses to almost everyone

"DeputyDawg" <depdawgn...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Nw0Ra.72998$Ph3.7357@sccrnsc04>...

news:cde9hvga8ikvmav31...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:56:29 GMT, "DeputyDawg"

> Last year, on offense, you had Mark Brunell, a healthy Fred Taylor,
> Stacey Mack, Kyle Brady, & Jimmy Smith all having very good seasons.

Brunell did not have a great year, mainly because the Jags were lacking
talent on the offensive line and because they were lacking a consistent #2
wide receiver.

> You had a defense that allowed 19.7 points per game. That was 9th
> best in the NFL last year.

No, it was 10th best in the AFC. If you're going to use stats, at least use
accurate ones.

Where was this lack of talent exactly?

Offensive line, defensive end, linebacker, place kicker, etc., etc.

A
> lot of teams would kill for that kind of talent.

Especially if they already had talent to compliment those few.

>
> In Cowher's two bad years, he had Kordell Stewart at QB playing awful.

And he wouldn't bench him, as most other coaches would have. Back to the
old loyalty vs. stupidity argument.

> Jerome Bettis at RB struggling because of the ineffective passing
> offense & sub-par OLs.

Being 40 or 50 pounds overweight didn't help him much either.

"DeputyDawg" <depdawgn...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<y0nRa.67288$GL4.17458@rwcrnsc53>...

If you want to be shocked, look at where their passing game rated in
the NFL, considering they had a healthy Jimmy and MB playing all
season. I was surprised with how lame their passing O was rated. IIRC
it's in the high 20's out of 32 teams.

OL for sure. WR after JS. MB had no time to throw and only one
reliable target (or at least it appeared to be so, could be MBs fault
for not anal retenting on anyone besides JS)

Kill for what kind of talent? Fred is better than about...20 starting
HBs in the league? Not bad. JS is still in the top 10...maybe. Not
sure. May have dipped below that. MB might be in the top 50% of the
starting QBs, if he gets better OL play. Last year on D, not many of
those starters would be coveted by many teams.

This has been covered ad naseum of course. Cowher was a complete idiot
for how he handled the QB position right up to he put in Maddox.

40-50 overweight as a football player? F-- no. Maybe that overweight
as a person on the street. Using those guidelines, every single
football player in the NFL is overweight. Now, I agree strongly the
man was 20 lb. heavier than he should have been for ideal playing
weight. The guy is a power back, size is a big part of his game. He
has dropped about 20 or more for this season, but lets see how long
that lasts. I have been a strong whiner for JB letting himself get way
too fat for ideal playing weight. And his excuses are moronic. Claimed
that a groin injury was why he became such a load; heck, a groin
injury makes you cram food in your grill?

You heard it here first: The surprise back on Pgh this season might be
a guy by the name of Verron Haynes.

If Bus is toast, and Amos goes down, Verron will be the surprise back
of the NFL this season

In article <Xns93BA682...@earthlink.net>, fat...@subdimension.com
says...
> seathre...@hotmail.com (Seathree Peoman) wrote in
> news:5899c6c6.03071...@posting.google.com:> I heard rumors about this. I guess it's true.
>
>
I heard they've all loved him at least once or twice.

GaryB

From CBS Sports Line, February 26, 2003:

"Former Jaguars coach Tom Coughlin attended the combine to evaluate players
as he attempts to hook up with some team as a consultant. Coughlin, who has
two years left on his Jaguars deal at $2.5 million a season, spends his days
evaluating players, talking to coaches around the country and keeping his
hand in the NFL happenings. He works out of an office at his house, hoping
to hear from some team that wants some consultant help. If a team were
smart, they'd give him a chance. He might not have been the best with his
players, but he was thorough when it came to evaluating talent -- even if he
did have his share of misses. Away from the pressures of being coach, too,
Coughlin could aid a team's personnel department. Some coaches around the
league insist that Coughlin did his best coaching job in 2002, even though
he was fired. Cap troubles picked his roster clean, yet at one point the
Jaguars were 3-1 and dominated the Eagles at home."

"blink" <n...@no.com> wrote in message
news:ls2chv8mltmod7k8e...@4ax.com...
> Where's that list of head coach quotes about Coughlin? If he did such
> a great job last year, why did he get fired?
>
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 01:32:14 GMT, "DeputyDawg"

> Did I say "great"? If you can't remember, look up a couple lines.
> Last year was Brunell's third best in the NFL.

> As were the Steelers in 98-99.

> At least you had ONE good receiver last year unlike those 98-99
> Steeler teams.
>
> Back to the QB. For comparison's sake:
>
> Brunell (2002): 245/416 58.9% 2788Yds 6.7YPA 17TDs 7Ints 85.7Rating
> Kordell (1998): 252/458 55.0% 2560Yds 5.6YPA 11TDs 18Ints 62.9Rating
> Kordell (1999): 160/275 58.2% 1464Yds 5.3YPA 6TDs 10Ints 64.9Rating
>
> You have no idea what bad QB play is. You will find out eventually.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2002/regular?sort_col_1=3
>
> Please read me the name of the 9th team on that sorted list of 2002
> NFL defensive points allowed per game, please.
>
> No, it was 9th best in the NFL. If you're going to use stats, at

> Your team finished 5th in yards per rush. Your line did allow a
> decent amount of sacks though. At worst, your line was average last
> year. It wasn't any worse than the lines the Steelers had in 98-99.
>
> >>defensive end, linebacker,
>
> Every team has holes somewhere. The Steelers had Nolan Harrison &
> Kevin Henry as their ends during their bad period.
>
> >place kicker
>
> I'll give you that one. However, the Steelers had just as many
> problems in that area until they signed Reed. You guys had your shot
> at him but blew it.
>
> >etc., etc.
>
> etc., etc.?
>
> Face it. Your team was better off last year than the Steeler teams of
> 98-99. Yet you still only finished 6-10. That's no better than the
> Steeler's record in those down years. Therefore, getting rid of
> Cowher for Coughlin would be a downgrade, as I said.

> No. If they just had the talent you had last year.

> He did bench him. Three times. They had no one else behind Kordell
> until Maddox arrived. Cowher wasn't the GM in Pittsburgh like
> Coughlin was there.

> Probably not but when he was still overweight by 40-50 pounds and
> played behind a decent OL in 2001, he put up much better numbers (4.8
> YPC).
>

news:7imfhv4f3m6asnmkl...@4ax.com...> "Some coaches"? Notice how it doesn't say "Some head coaches"? You
> also claimed these "head coaches" stated PUBLICLY that Coughlin did a
> great job last year. I don't see any quotes in that blurb.

Besides, it was Prisco he was quoting, so who knows if what he said was
based in reality or not. I still agree with Dawg's point and think Coughlin
did a very good job with what he had in his last year, and writers besides
Prisco have made the same point. However, the only coach I know of who has
said so publicly is Del Rio.

> "Some coaches" may think he did a great job but your own team didn't
> agree, did they?

Are you so simple minded? Don't you understand that there are a lot of
factors involved besides just how well he did or whether or not the team
liked him? The Jaguars needed somebody who could help them sell tickets.
Coughlin's popularity with fans had dropped off because he is not PR savvy
and the Jags had been through three losing seasons. Even if Weaver felt he
was capable of bringing the team back up again, a change had to be made.

> Did one of those "head coaches" who thought he did a
> great job give him that consultant job he was looking for?

Actually, yes.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/032703/jag_12118091.shtml

news:r13hhv0fajn26t4md...@4ax.com...> ...and he only talked about it because he was probably forced to talk
> about it. He also wouldn't say anything negative about a person who's
> job he took. So, Del Rio's thoughts really don't count.

No, he wasn't forced. And no, he didn't have to say anything at all, or
could have answered the question without mentioning Coughlin. I wouldn't
expect him to publicly say anything negative about Coughlin even if he felt
that way, but in that case he also wouldn't be expected to give him praise,
either.

> No. I'm not the one claiming my team fired a coach who did a "great
> job" for whatever reason. Good coaches are hard to come by. You
> don't fire one who is doing a "great job".

Sure you do. It happens. Fans don't care whether or not a coach is doing a
good job with what he has, they only care about winning. And even beyond
that, sometimes owners and GM's have their own agendas that require a good
coach to be fired.

> You might have a point if your team brought in a big name coach who
> would draw the fans in. They didn't. They brought in a veritable
> unknown one with ZERO head coaching experience.

Exactly which big name head coach should they have brought in? Mariucci?
The Jags were considering him, but he made it clear he wasn't interested.
Who else? Green? Too much baggage, and less leeway with fans than Del Rio
will have. Parcells? Nope, Dallas got him, and I'm sure Weaver was looking
for a guy who would stick around longer than that, anyway. Who, exactly,
was this big name head coach they should have hired?

> They may sell a few
> more tickets just because of the change this year but what happens
> after a year or two if things don't change dramatically?

Obviously Weaver thinks that Del Rio will be a good coach, so he's not
expecting it to be a problem.

> They'll be
> right back where they started. Plus, if they want things to change
> dramatically, they shouldn't have fired a head coach who was doing a
> "great job".

You just don't get it, do you? Coughlin had to go in order for people to
begin buying tickets again, regardless of how well he was coaching or what
Weaver thought of him. And Coughlin was no good at PR, something that
started to become a problem for sales when the team had a down cycle and the
newness had worn off. That's one of the reasons Weaver was so enthused with
Del Rio, he's young, good looking, affable, and willing to shill for the
team.

> Is your team planning on firing their head coach, no matter how well
> he does, every few years just because your team is unable to sell
> tickets? That's a great plan.

Of course not. But if Del Rio gets into a similar situation, then certainly
his job is going to be on the line, no matter how well he's doing. The
plan, of course, is to not let the cap get so far out of hand again so that
it has to happen. He'll also have an opportunity to put his PR skills to
the test at some point, and maybe that will buy time with the fans. We'll
see.

> I don't see the word "gave him a job" in that article.
>
> Invited <> job.

ie., I was wrong, but I don't want to admit it so I'll wriggle out of it by
arguing semantics.

Who would you have picked for the Jags head coach? Weaver did do an
extensive search even if your pissburg sqealer mind can't comprehend that.
Carolina hired a big named coach and where did that get them? Every coach at
one time was a virtual unknown. Wayne Weaver hired Del Rio not for just
this year but down the line. At least he is not a lover of boys like
cowert.news:15jhhv80vd7dcvnrd...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 04:14:35 GMT, "El Guapo" <plet...@pinatas.com>> So you know for a fact that management didn't ask/tell him to praise
> Coughlin when he first arrived?> Just because he said a few good words about Coughlin, doesn't mean he
> meant those good words. You should realize this with all your talk
> about PR.> Last time I checked, the fans didn't run the Jacksonville Jaguars.
> Making personnel decisions based on what your fans want and not based
> on what's best for your team is just asking for trouble.> How often has a coach doing a "great job" been fired and replaced by
> an unknown quantity to sell tickets? I think I could probably count
> the number of times on one finger.> I didn't say they should have hired a big name coach. I said if you
> are going to fire a coach who did a "great job" to sell more tickets,
> you would hire a big name coach who could actually sell those tickets
> & not some unknown coach with no coaching experience. You'd have
> someone lined up to replace your current head coach before firing
> him...if he was indeed doing a "great job".> Every coach hired is expected to be a good coach. The truth is that
> you just don't know what you will be getting with Del Rio. However,
> Coughlin was a "good coach" doing a "great job", right? Who would you
> pick to turn around a team: a coach who does a "great job" or an
> unknown coach with no NFL head coaching experience? Gee, that's a
> tough one.> No. I'm not buying your phoney excuses.> That will buy him one year of increased sales. After that, if Del Rio
> doesn't turn things around, you will be right back where you started
> or worse. At least with Coughlin, you would have gotten a coach you
> know could do a "great job" and turn things around.> We're not talking about the cap. If it was just about the cap, they
> could have replaced Coughlin as the GM and left him as head coach.
> We're talking about coaching ability.> ..which are as unknown as his head coaching skills.> Ahhh...the "we'll see" approach. Let's throw some crap to the wall
> and see if it sticks.> Yes. You and Deputy are a lot alike.
>

"Daryl Grier" <d_g...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<SDbSa.10988$647....@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>...

What are you claiming above? Spell it out. Don't make wussy half-claims

What? You couldn't understand that?news:5899c6c6.03071...@posting.google.com...

What is your specific assertion regarding Cowher? Knock off the
vagueness. If you are going to make an assertion, make it; don't be
scared

"Daryl Grier" <d_g...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<PUuSa.5142$g9....@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com>...