Gospel Tangents Podcast

Rick B
  • 4.5 (127)
  • CHRISTIANITY
  • UPDATED SEMIWEEKLY
Gospel Tangents Podcast

A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

  1. 2D AGO

    Strangite Priesthood-Beaver Island Preview Gary Weber (5 of 6)

    Recently, I had the fascinating opportunity to delve into the beliefs practices, and Strangite priesthood views with Gary Weber of the Strangite Church, a lesser-known branch of Mormonism. This discussion sheds light on many intriguing aspects of their faith, highlighting both commonalities and distinct differences from the more widely known LDS (Latter-day Saint) Church. https://youtu.be/GvLjkF8kqms Understanding Strangite Priesthood: A Core Difference One of the most significant distinctions discussed was the Strangite understanding of the priesthood and its associated "keys." While the Melchizedek priesthood holds specific keys related to office, it does not encompass all keys. According to Gary Weber, the Melchizedek priesthood cannot evolve to ordain a prophet. Instead, they believe a prophet can only be ordained by an angel, as was the case for Moses, Joseph Smith, and James J. Strang. The fundamental principle here is that "the lesser cannot ordain the greater". This leads to a critical differentiation of priesthood keys: Keys of Mysteries and Revelations: These keys are associated only with the prophet-lawgiver and can only be held by one person at a time. Gary Weber states that James J. Strang could not have been ordained by angels while Joseph Smith was alive but was ordained the moment Joseph Smith died. Keys of the Kingdom: These keys can be possessed by many people, as seen with the twelve apostles who were given these keys to spread the gospel to nations. They can also confer these keys to others, with hundreds potentially holding them. Gary noted that many members of the LDS Church often don't understand this distinction between the two types of keys. Sacrament Practices: Purity and Purpose The Strangite Church observes the sacrament once a month, rather than weekly like the LDS Church. Their reasoning is that frequent observance could make it "mundane" and cause it to "lose its specialness and sacredness". The elements used for the sacrament also have specific requirements: Juice: Any edible fresh fruit juice is acceptable, as stated in their book of law under the Eucharist. Examples include orange juice, which was used when Gary grew up in Artesia, or fresh processed grape juice from their vineyard. If no juice is available, water can be used, emphasizing the focus on one's "eye singleness to God" and the purpose of remembering Christ's blood. Typically Strangites use some sort of fresh juice (not store-bought) for the sacrament. This assures the juice has not been adulterated. Bread: Must be made of any grain, prepared by the members themselves, not store-bought. This is to ensure its purity and prevent it from being "adulterated". Other Doctrines and Practices: Baptism: They baptize at age eight, aligning with the LDS Church, based on the Doctrine and Covenants and a belief that children at this age have scientifically reached a maturity level to understand right from wrong. Baptism can occur in a church font or natural bodies of water like the White River, depending on personal preference. Priesthood Recognition: The Strangite Church does not recognize the priesthood of other churches, including the LDS priesthood, as they trace their priesthood lineage back through Joseph Smith and James J. Strang. Communion: They practice a closed communion, meaning it is only served to those who have been baptized, taken upon Christ's name, and are deemed worthy, as stated in the Book of Mormon by Jesus to the Nephites. Missionary Work: Unlike the door-to-door approach of many LDS missionaries, Strangites engage in a more limited form of proselytization. They will travel to baptize individuals with whom they've corresponded and who show genuine interest, sometimes over many months. Interestingly, Gary expressed that the wider recognition of the "Mormon" name, largely due to the LDS Church's efforts, has made it easier for Strangites to teach Mormonism,

    28 sec

  2. 5D AGO

    Strangite Women Hold Priesthood, Saturday Worship (Gary Weber 4 of 6)

    Welcome to an exploration of one of the most distinctive branches of Mormonism: the Strangite Church. We will discuss Strangite women's role in priesthood. While many are familiar with the larger Latter-day Saint movements, the Strangites offer a fascinating glimpse into different interpretations and practices rooted in early Restorationism. Based primarily in Burlington, Wisconsin, the Strangite Church has a rich history, unique theological perspectives, and surprising elements that set it apart. https://youtu.be/61quRH-_glI Resilient Community/Promised Refuge According to the revelations of James J. Strang, Voree was prophesied to be a refuge for the people, where "the Gentiles would treat you with kindness". Remarkably, the Strangites in Voree have never experienced the persecution that other Mormon settlements faced in places like Palmyra, Kirtland, Independence, or Nauvoo. This consistent respect and kind treatment from the wider community is seen by Strangites as a powerful sign that James A. Strang's revelations were true. Furthermore, families living there have prospered, owning homes and achieving financial stability, which they believe is a testament to the blessings promised for obedience to God. The congregation has seen periods of challenge and renewal. A spiritual movement led others to move to Voree, and gradually the church began to build up again. While the primary congregation is in Burlington, members also reside in various states, including Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Florida, Michigan, and Minnesota, often attending services via Zoom. Women in the Aaronic Priesthood Perhaps one of the most surprising and progressive aspects of the Strangite Church is its stance on women and the priesthood. Unlike many other Restorationist faiths, the Strangite Church ordains women to the Aaronic priesthood, specifically to the office of teacher. They believe that Emma Smith herself was the first teacher. These women teachers play an active and vital role in church services. They are permitted to lead meetings, often doing so in pairs, each taking half of the Sabbath service. While women hold the office of teacher, they are not ordained as deaconesses; deacons are exclusively boys. Priesthood ordination in the Strangite Church is not tied to age or seen as a "rite of passage.” Instead, individuals are called when a priesthood member receives inspiration that a particular person is ready and begins to excel. The Strangite priesthood structure includes: Melchizedek Priesthood: Elders and High Priests. Aaronic Priesthood: Priests, Teachers (including women), and Deacons. There are no Seventies currently, and they believe a prophet is needed to structure other offices. The leadership of the church has continued through a series of appointments. Lorenzo Hickey ordained Wingfield Watson as the head of the church and a high priest, who then served until his passing around 1920. Following Watson, subsequent presiding high priests have been appointed by their predecessors. Currently, David Flanders serves as the presiding high priest, a role of duty and responsibility to manage affairs, but not one that grants him higher authority than other high priests. Saturday Worship and the Nature of Christ A distinct practice of the Strangite Church is their worship on Saturday, the Sabbath day. This is based on their belief that God sanctified the seventh day during creation. They contend that the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday to honor the sun god and appease pagans, aiming to unite Christians and pagans into a single universal church. Their theological views also extend to the nature of Christ. The Strangite Church believes that Jesus was 100% mortal, and that Joseph was his biological father. This belief is critical to their understanding of Christ's lineage, as Joseph was of the tribe of Judah, which connects Jesus directly to the covenant line of Abraham and King David through the ma...

    23 min

  3. 6D AGO

    Strangite Mormon Beliefs on Polygamy, Baptism for the Dead & More (Gary Weber 3 of 6)

    Gary Weber, a member of the Strangite Church, shared unique insights into their doctrines, including polygamy, baptism for the dead, and their distinctive interpretation of the "stick of Judah" prophecy. https://youtu.be/_e1Zm605gtE   0:00 Distinctive Stance on Polygamy  The Strangite Church believes that polygamy is an eternal principle and can be acceptable to God if commanded by Him, primarily "to build up seed unto [His] name," not for lustful purposes. This aligns with the Book of Jacob in the Book of Mormon, which states one should have only one wife "unless I command you otherwise.” Historical figures like Abraham are cited as examples of righteous men who practiced it when commanded.  Regarding their founder, James Strang, initially, he was against polygamy. However, he later embraced it, reportedly through inspiration from God on Beaver Island, allowing it as part of the "Book of the Law of the Lord.” It's notable that its practice was limited, with perhaps only five families out of thousands practicing it due to financial constraints and the crucial requirement that the wife must not object.  Currently, the Strangite Church does not practice polygamy. This is primarily because they believe in keeping the laws of the land, and polygamy is against the law. They hold that God would not put people in a position to break the law and go to jail. Gary Weber noted that Joseph Smith also said, "We believe in keeping the laws of the land.” Furthermore, they believe that only a prophet can "usher in a dispensation for polygamy.” Interestingly, Gary mentioned that Joseph Smith allegedly cut off a Mr. Brown from the church for practicing and teaching polygamy three months before his death, suggesting an inconsistency in Joseph Smith's own stated position if he himself practiced it.  5:17 Baptism for the Dead  Another unique doctrine discussed is baptism for the dead, which the Strangites believe requires a prophet to "usher in a dispensation" and obtain "the keys from Elijah.” They assert that both Joseph Smith and James A. Strang received these keys and therefore practiced it. The "Book of the Law of the Lord" includes a section on the doctrine of baptism for the dead, which is described as identical to the information Joseph Smith put out in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants.  A significant difference between the Strangite practice and that of the Utah Mormons (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is that the Strangites believe that the sex of the person does not matter; a woman could be baptized for her deceased father if he hadn't been baptized. In contrast, the Utah church generally practices that women baptize for women and men for men.  However, the Strangite Church does not currently practice baptism for the dead. The reason, similar to polygamy, is the absence of a living prophet on the earth.  8:39 Waiting for the Prophet of the "Stick of Judah"  The Strangite Church has a distinct eschatological belief tied to a prophecy in Genesis 49, where Jacob blesses his 12 sons. When speaking of Judah, it states, "the lawgiver shall not depart between the feet of Judah.” They interpret this to mean that after Joseph Smith, who they consider the prophet of the "stick of Ephraim," there was to be a prophet from the tribe of Judah who would "bring forth the book of the law.”  This next prophet is expected to remain in the house of Judah, from the tribe of King David, and will take the gospel to the house of Israel. The Strangite Church is currently waiting for this prophet to come forth, as they believe there was meant to be an "indirect period of time" after James Strang, before the "house of Israel's dispensation to the Jews" began.  13:29 James Strang's Life & Beaver Island Community  James Strang lived in the Voree/Burlington area, Wisconsin, from about 1842 until approximately 1849 or 1850. He then moved his community to Beaver Island around 1850,

    21 min

  4. JUL 10

    Meet a Strangite Mormon (Gary Weber 2 of 6)

    It’s always fun to talk to someone from the Strangite Church, officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite) Based in Burlington, Wisconsin, this branch of the Latter-day Saint movement offers a distinctive perspective on the succession of Joseph Smith and the ongoing divine restoration. https://youtu.be/RUL8rF0hb4U Strangite Genesis in Voree The current headquarters of the Strangite Church is Burlington, Wisconsin. Interestingly, the area holds historical significance with multiple names. It was originally called Foxville. While today it's known as Burlington, a specific area on the west side of town where the Mormon settlement was located was called Voree by the early Strangites, a name associated with the significant "Voree record". James J. Strang led his followers to this location, believing God had instructed them to move from Nauvoo. James Strang was dispatched to the Burlington area by Joseph Smith, having been baptized and made an elder by Smith himself. Strang wrote back to Joseph Smith, suggesting Voree would be a "wonderful place for a gathering" due to its rich resources like fish, fresh water, great farmland, and good soil near the Great Lakes. Initially, Joseph Smith was hesitant, but after discussion with Hyrum Smith and a subsequent spiritual revelation, he concluded that Voree was indeed a good place for the Saints. James J. Strang: Joseph Smith's Chosen Successor? The Strangite Church believes that James J. Strang was divinely appointed as Joseph Smith's successor. This belief is rooted in two pivotal events: The Letter of Appointment: Joseph Smith penned a letter to James A. Strang, officially appointing him as his successor. This original letter is now preserved at Yale University in the Beineke Library, with copies available for members. The Angelic Ordination: On the very day Joseph Smith was assassinated, June 27, 1844, angels appeared to James J. Strang and ordained him a prophet. These were believed to be the same angels who ordained Joseph Smith – Peter, James, and John. Strang was aware of Joseph's death through this angelic visitation even before news arrived from Nauvoo. Furthermore, it's believed that Jesus also anointed Strang as the King of Israel for the gentile dispensation, an ordination attributed to his lineage from the royal line of King David. Sacred Texts and Prophetic Interpretations The Strangite Church embraces a unique canon of scripture beyond what is common in other Latter-day Saint traditions: The Voree Plates: These ancient plates were revealed to James Strang through a vision from the angel Moroni, known as the Hill of Promise. Strang gathered leading citizens to witness their excavation from beneath a tree, about four feet down, where roots had grown around them. The plates, housed in an earthen case, crumbled upon exposure to air due to their age. Witnesses, including a newspaper reporter from Kenosha, confirmed the ancient nature of the record and that the site had been undisturbed. Strang translated them using the Urim and Thummim given to him by the angel Moroni, much like Joseph Smith used the Urim and Thummim to translate the Book of Mormon. The Voree Plates provide a brief history of a people who were "no more" and, most notably, contained a pictorial drawing depicting the true structure of the priesthood, including the prophet lawgiver, two viceroys, twelve apostles, high priests, and seventies. These plates were translated around 1844. The Book of the Law: This significant text is believed to be the "stick of Judah" spoken of in Ezekiel 37. According to Strangite belief, Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon (the stick of Ephraim), but was instructed not to touch the sealed record, which was the Book of the Law, meant for a future prophet. James J. Strang, being of the tribe of Judah with Jewish ancestry, translated the Book of the Law after receiving the plates of Laban from the angel Moroni.

    22 min

  5. JUL 8

    Remembering Lynne Whitesides

    This is a re-broadcast of my 2023 interview with Lynne Whitesides. She passed away from pneumonia/leukemia on July 7, 2025. We miss her. Lynne Whitesides was the first person punished in the September Six. She shares her story of why she wasn't excommunicated, who was involved, and where she is on her spiritual journey. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/thV_CGqy3jY Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. First to Get Punished Interview GT  00:34  Welcome to Gospel Tangents. I'm so excited to have one of the original members of the September Six. Could you go ahead and tell us who you are and where we are? Lynne  00:45  I am Lynne Whitesides, and I was the first of the September Six. GT  00:49  Okay. Lynne  00:50  We are at the Utah Valley University in Provo. GT  00:56  Right, Orem, actually. Lynne  00:57  Are we in Provo? We're in Orem. GT  01:00  Well, very good. I've been doing this podcast for eight years now. And this is our first time talking. You're hard to track down. Lynne  01:11  I don't know. I'm glad to be here. GT  01:14  Well, thanks. Well, as we look back on this, can you talk about the events? I don't know how far back it goes. Does it go back to the 80s? Or was it just really concentrated in the early 90s, that led you into trouble with Church authorities? Lynne  01:30  Well, I can go back a little farther, even in my own [story.] But I don't know that we want to go there. I'll start with from when I moved from Chicago to Salt Lake City. And when I did that, my friend, Lorie Stromberg; do you know Lorie? GT  01:48  A little bit. We're Facebook friends. Lynne  01:50  Lorie said, "Why don't you volunteer for Sunstone?" And I had three little kids and my husband was doing his residency and he had gotten his residency here in Salt Lake. And I so I went down, and I volunteered to just be one of the people who helps at Sunstone. And at the end of that symposium, so that was '84, or something like that. GT  02:12  Okay. Lynne  02:13  Then, I think Marti Bradley had a talk with Elbert Peck and said, "We think Lynne should be the new chair of the symposium." So, they invited me to be the chair of the symposium for the next year, which I did. I mean, I did it for four years. So whatever the four years were. GT  02:30  So, you were the leader of Sunstone? Lynne  02:31  I was the chair of the symposium. Elbert was the editor and Daniel Rector was the publisher. And then there are [others.] At the time, her name was Marti Esplin and now her name is Marti Ashby now. She was an editor. There was a really cool crew that worked there, Connie Disney. GT  02:49  So, this is after Peggy Fletcher's Stack. Lynne  02:51  Yes, just right after when Elbert took over. And it was so much fun working with Elbert and Daniel. Because I had no idea how to pull a Symposium together. But Elbert, in particular, was so gracious and helpful and just kind of showed me the ropes. And by the time I was done [with] four years, I could run a symposium, so it was great. GT  03:16  Well, it sounds like Sunstone and correct me if I'm wrong. It seems like it used to be a magazine. And it seems like Peggy was trying to get people to write for the magazine. And she started the symposium and now the symposium is the whole thing. Lynne  03:31  Yeah. GT  03:31  There's not that many people that read the magazine anymore. Lynne  03:33  I don't even know. I don't follow the magazine anymore at all. I haven't been to the symposium for years, since 10 years after, and then this year. Because I have been invited to speak. But, those four years were really kind of heady because Peggy, that's what she was trying to do. And we were getting a lot of professors from BYU and the University of Utah, but also just all kinds of really interesting people.

    1h 10m

  6. JUL 7

    Historic Tour in Voree, Wisconsin (Gary Weber 1 of 5)

    Join us on a fascinating journey to Voree/Burlington, Wisconsin, to explore the unique history and beliefs of a Latter-day Saint group often referred to as the Strangites. This isn't the commonly known LDS Church; rather, it's a distinct branch founded by James Strang. He started a rival Mormon Church in Voree/Burlington, Wisconsin back in 1844 and the church still exists! We'll tour around the Trust Farm and see historic sites, including the Hill of Promise & the home where James Strang died. Gary Weber is a Strangite. He's our tour guide and we'll discuss their church and theology. You don't want to miss this conversation... https://youtu.be/uMh31ZwIZik Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. Genesis of Strangism The Strangite Church, formally known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Strangite), was founded in 1844. James Strang, who had been sent on a mission to Wisconsin by Joseph Smith, claimed that an angel ordained him on June 27, 1844, the very day Joseph Smith died. This divine ordination, he asserted, made him the rightful successor to the church's leadership. Trip to Voree/Burlington The journey to this lesser-known Latter-day Saint community in Wisconsin involved a mix of trains, planes, and automobiles. Landing in Milwaukee, the trip continued towards Burlington, Wisconsin, where the Church is located. The group believes they are the original Mormon Church and refer to themselves as Mormons. The area around Burlington, known as Voree is the setting for much of Strangite history, especially concerning the "Voree record". The weather in Burlington on June 12th was surprisingly mild for summer, with a high of just 63 and low around 56 degrees Fahrenheit, a notable difference from Utah's typical June temperatures. Current Church Building and Surroundings The current Strangite church building, located on Spring Valley Road near what's called "Mormon Road," is smaller than I expected. According to Bill Shepard, a long-time resident & member, this building was constructed around 1965-1967 and marks the first time the Strangites have had a dedicated church building, as they were previously scattered. The lawn around the chapel is nicely manicured, and visitors are always welcome. Inside, or in their collections, the Strangites possess a wealth of historical documents, including 26 volumes of the Journal of Discourses, Times and Seasons, and Millennial Star. They also have Strang Manuscripts, which are copies of letters, and a publication called The Northern Islander, which was published at Beaver Island. Notably, the Strangites do use the Doctrine and Covenants. Sacred Hill of Promise One of the most significant sites for Strangites is the Hill of Promise. This is where James Strang is believed to have found his "Voree plates. The discovery was found under a small tree on the hill, under which Strang claimed a buried record lay. He gathered respected men from the town to witness the excavation, ensuring no prior disturbance of the soil. An angel reportedly appeared to Strang, revealing the record's location. Upon opening the stone casing, the ancient record crumbled due to exposure to air, a common occurrence with ancient artifacts according to Weber. Strang translated this record using the Urim and Thummim, which he said he received from the angel Moroni. The "Voree record" was a short account of a people named "Raja Ramor" who lived in the area and, similar to the Nephites on the Hill Cumorah, were largely destroyed in a great war. The record also depicted the priesthood structure, aligning precisely with the priesthood under Joseph Smith and James Strang, including prophet, viceroy, twelve apostles, and seventies. Beyond its historical significance, the Hill of Promise holds prophetic importance: James Strang's revelations indicate that Daniel from the Bible will someday app...

    27 min

  7. JUL 5

    Temples, Travels, & Timely Insights!

    I've visited some temples recently! "Gospel Tangents" recently hosted a surprise live session, a "late night unannounced edition," much to the delight of its "night owl" viewers. I shared a whirlwind of Temples, Travels, updates, upcoming content, and even some breaking news from various Restorationist traditions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_a2PA5jAU Temples, Travels, & Timely Insights! I've been traveling extensively, leading to a "boatload of pictures" and a significant backlog of videos waiting to be edited. Despite the busy schedule, i'm eager to share my experiences: Community of Christ World Conference in Independence: Rick attended and captured his reactions to Stassi Cramm being ordained the new prophet. While there, he met a man from New Zealand (a "Kiwi") and expressed hope for interviews with people from the Temple Lot Church, including Tom from a fundamentalist group and potentially Stassi Cramm herself. Mormon History Association (MHA): This event also proved fruitful, including tours of LDS churches, such as an old one in Ogden and Joseph Soderberg's church where President Hinckley reportedly gained his testimony. Exploring the Strangites in Wisconsin: This trip was a major highlight. I stayed with Bill Shepard, a former guest, and toured various Strangite sites with Gary Weber and David Boice. ◦ A key stop was the Hill of Promise, which the Strangites consider akin to the Hill Cumorah. It's believed to be where James J. Strang found the Voree record, a "short record of the people of Raja Ramor." This record described a people similar to those in the Book of Mormon, with a priesthood structure mirroring Joseph and James's. The Hill of Promise also holds future significance, as Strangite revelations state that Daniel from the Bible will appear there to announce Christ's approaching second coming. ◦ I also visited the site of the unbuilt Strangite temple in Burlington, which was planned to be "quite significant" in size. ◦ Rick also drove by James Strang's house in Burlington, where Strang died three weeks after his assassination on the dock of Lake Michiga. ◦ A fascinating piece of news is that David Boice is moving to Utah at the end of July. Rick plans to visit Beaver Island (Strangite Island) in July or August, noting that while Gary Weber says there's "not a lot to see," one can rent a golf cart for getting around. He also mentioned Vicki Speek is working on a census of the island. ◦ For those unfamiliar, James J. Strang claimed an angelic ordination on the day Joseph Smith died (June 27, 1844). He translated the Voree plates and later the "plates of Laban" (published as the Book of the Law of the Lord). He settled in Burlington, then moved to Beaver Island, where he was crowned king and even served in the Michigan legislature. His efforts to stop Gentiles from selling liquor to Native Americans reportedly led to his assassination with the help of the U.S. Navy. Upcoming Trip to Calgary and Cardston, Alberta: Rick is flying to Calgary for his son's wedding. He plans to make a video about the Cardston Alberta Temple, which was the first international temple for the LDS Church. Some compare it to the Mesa Temple and notes its "pioneer feel" like the Manti Temple. The Cardston Temple's murals are darker, possibly due to varnish, and hopes for a refurbishment once a new temple opens in Lethbridge. Book Giveaways and Exciting New Releases The live session included a book giveaway for "Joseph Fielding Smith a Mormon Theologian," won by Mark Francis. Looking ahead, the channel is celebrating the release of John Turner's new book, "Joseph Smith The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet," which launched in June on Amazon. (The contest is over now.) Rick gave away an autographed copy of this book. Potentially "Breaking News" from the Temple Lot Church I discovered some surprising news regarding the Temple Lot Church: they are "going to quit selling the Book of Commandme...

    43 min

  8. JUL 2

    What was Left out of 2nd Class Saints? (Matt Harris 6 of 6)

    Matt Harris told me that only 30% of his research went into his book "2nd Class Saints" due to space restrictions. What was left out? We'll find out and also get a preview of his upcoming biography of Hugh B Brown. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/fQBhV5kMdZ4 Don't miss our other conversations with Matt: https://gospeltangents.com/people/matt-harris/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission.   What Was Left Out? GT  00:30  I think I've only asked you 1/20 of what I wanted to ask. I need to let you go, but the last question that I want to hit you on, I remember we had a conversation one time, and you said that when you write a book, you only put in about 30% of your research. Usually it's because of page limitations and that sort of a thing. Can you share a story or two of the 70% that's not in this book? Matt  01:07  Yeah. GT  01:09  I mean, I guess the Brown stuff, that's for your new book. But what are some things that due to space restrictions you just couldn't get in? Matt  01:21  Well, just a quick thought, the Brown stuff is in there, his activism and speaking to the press and getting Monroe Fleming ordained or trying to get him ordained, that's all in there in great detail. But the later stuff in the 1970s... GT  01:34  Daddy, the recording, I don't think that was in there. Matt  01:38  No, no, no. That will be in my Brown biography. And in full disclosure, I found some of this stuff after, later. GT  01:53  A book is never finished. Right? Matt  01:58  Oh, my goodness. Well, there are other details that I'll include about Brown and the ban, in particular, because it's so pivotal to his story, as is polygamy, weirdly enough. And also, the other story I'll just start with a teaser, is that Brown was told that he would be an apostle at the age of 15, if he lived righteous enough. He wasn't called in the Quorum of the Twelve until he was 78 years of age. GT  02:19 Wow. Matt  02:20 That is a problem, especially if you've been told... GT  02:24. We could have gotten rid of the ban sooner. Right? If he was only 20... Matt  02:29. The teaser I'll give you is it wasn't the ban that kept him out. It was something else. He was accused of doing something he did not do. GT  02:36  Did Newell Bringhurst share that story, or maybe you did. Was it with alcohol? Matt  02:43  Newell wouldn't have known this. Well, Newell knows it only for me. This is all new stuff that nobody knows about. And I've shared it with a few people. GT  02:47  Was it with the alcohol commission or something? Matt  02:52  Yeah. Some other time, I'll tell you more about the details of that. It's a fascinating thing. He was accused of taking bribes that he didn't take. But perception can be reality. GT  03:02. It doesn't matter when it's politics. Matt  03:04  That's right. GT  03:04. Accusation is good enough. Matt  03:05  That's right, and especially when people's income is at stake. So there's a lot of things I didn't talk about in this book. I couldn't because of space constraints, but some of it was--I'll give you a couple of examples. One deals with the activism. I talk a lot about the Church Education System and the BYU religion faculty and CES/Institute people, those who teach the young men and women of the Church, college age. I was shocked at the level of pushback from people who are paid to teach religion to the college-aged kids, how much they opposed the ban. GT  03:51 Oh wow. Matt  03:52 And you definitely get that in this book. You see it. I mean, I name some names, just the more high profile people like Lowell Bennion. But because of the length of the book, and they wanted to keep the price down, the press and all of that, I had to cut out a lot of details on that. GT  04:10. Can we get a sequel? Matt  04:14. And so I name names.

    29 min
See All (200)

4.5
out of 5
127 Ratings

About

A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

Information

  • Creator
    Rick B
  • Years Active
    2017 - 2025
  • Episodes
    200
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved
  • Show Website
    Gospel Tangents Podcast

You Might Also Like

To listen to explicit episodes, sign in.

Stay up to date with this show

Sign in or sign up to follow shows, save episodes, and get the latest updates.
Select a country or region

Africa, Middle East, and India

Asia Pacific

Europe

Latin America and the Caribbean

The United States and Canada