Gospel Tangents Podcast

Rick B
  • 4.5 (126)
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Gospel Tangents Podcast

Gospel Tangents explores Mormon History, Science, Theology, and is a resource to learn more about real Mormon History by interviewing historians, scientists, experts, and authors. These podcasts will help generate future documentaries.

  1. 1D AGO

    Are William Clayton Journals Forged? (Clair Barrus 4 of 4)

    In our final conversation with Clair Barrus, we'll discuss polygamy skeptics and William Clayton Journals. They are some of the most important pieces of contemporary evidence of polygamy, so skeptics don't like this journal. Is there evidence it was forged? Clair Barrus weighs in. We'll also discuss William & Jane Laws' accusations against Joseph Smith. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/uqCbNbGazqk Check out our conversation with Clair Barrus who wrote a chapter in Secret Covenants... Don’t miss our other conversations with Clair: https://gospeltangents.com/people/clair-barrus/   Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission Are William Clayton Journals Reliable? We’re concluding our conversation with Clair Barrus, one of the authors in "Secret Covenants: New Insights into Mormon Polygamy." We’ll del into some contemporary documents to shed light on the early Nauvoo period1. One area explored involves the relationship dynamics between Joseph and Emma Smith and William and Jane Law. The sources reveal a period of tension for Joseph and Emma regarding plural marriage, with Emma reportedly exasperated by it. Joseph himself was suspicious, asking his scribe William Clayton if Law was being "familiar" with Emma, suggesting concerns about her faithfulness. Evidence suggests Emma was interested in William Law, described by her as a "little man" she was attracted to. According to Joseph Jackson, a suspicious character, Joseph Smith allegedly offered Emma a "spiritual husband" if she would allow him his "spiritual wives.” Jackson termed this a "wife swap.” William Law, writing much later, described the situation differently, suggesting it was compensation for Emma's difficulties with Joseph having young women living in their home. This alleged arrangement may be what is referenced in D&C 132, verses 51 and 54, where Emma is commanded not to "partake of that which I commanded you to partake of.” This passage is framed as a test or Abrahamic sacrifice. Some interpret "that which" Emma was commanded not to partake of as referring to William Law. A typescript of William Law's journal, while needing cautious use as the original holograph is unavailable, seems to allude to this story, although its trustworthiness is uncertain. The conversation also touches upon Joseph Smith's interaction with Jane Law. William and Jane Law desired to be sealed eternally, but Joseph Smith seemed to require they accept polygamy first. Alexander Neibaur's journal recounts Joseph telling him about visiting Jane Law while William was away. According to Neibaur's account of Joseph's story, Jane expressed a desire to be sealed. Joseph claimed he couldn't tell her that her husband was an "adulterer." This highlights the context of mutual accusations of adultery between William Law and Joseph Smith. In Neibaur's account, Jane then embraced Joseph and asked if she could be sealed to him if not to her husband. Joseph claimed he gently pushed her away. However, Jane's account, as related in Neibaur’s journal, differs; she told William that Joseph had proposed to her. William Law's journal typescript also reportedly states that Joseph Smith proposed to his wife. These conflicting accounts contribute to the complex historical picture. William Clayton's journal provides other key insights into Joseph Smith's practices and purported revelations. One interesting revelation recorded by Clayton was an "item of law" received for Clayton's benefit. This revelation stated that a man could only take two sisters from the same family, except by express revelation, because having more than two was "apt to cause wrangles and trouble." Clayton had expressed interest in marrying a third Moon sister, Lydia, after already marrying two others. Following this revelation, Joseph Smith asked Clayton if he would be okay if Joseph married Lydia Moon inste...

    1 min

  2. 2D AGO

    JFS-Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy (Bowman 4 of 4)

    Joseph Fielding Smith is the architect of controversial LDS orthodoxy. He has some controversial writings about Blacks and Ezra Taft Benson. We'll also delve into his role with Lowell Bennion, a BYU professor who was fired. Was JFS responsible or was it someone else? Matthew Bowman answers. We'll also dive into his role in shaping orthodoxy in the 20th century. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/toqjRr1B8Eo Joseph Fielding Smith: Architect of Controversial LDS Orthodoxy Joseph Fielding Smith described as a "lightning rod" due to some views considered politically incorrect today, particularly regarding race. Dr. Matt Bowman, author of "Joseph Fielding Smith, a Mormon Theologian," sheds light on Smith's impact on the church. One of the most uncomfortable aspects of Smith's legacy is his writings about Black individuals, especially concerning the priesthood. In his work, The Way to Perfection, Smith explicitly stated his subscription to the theory that people of African descent were less righteous in the pre-existence. He used language suggesting they were "not entitled to be born white." Smith was a staunch "defender of the racial restrictions" in the Church and became a major exponent of the idea, which the source traces back to Orson Hyde, that Black people possessed souls less righteous in the pre-existence. This stance led to prominent public clashes, notably with church educator Lowell Bennion at a symposium in the early 1950s. Their argument over the ban contributed to Bennion's eventual dismissal by Ernest Wilkinson, who was president of BYU and commissioner of church education. Wilkinson viewed Bennion as too liberal on race and saw Smith as an ally in this regard. While Wilkinson was the person who carried out the dismissal, the collision with Fielding Smith helped instigate the decision. Disagreement with Benson Smith also had complex relationships, even with those seen as ideologically sympathetic. Despite being viewed as a fellow conservative, Smith had significant disagreements with Ezra Taft Benson. A letter from Smith exists in which he hoped Benson's "blood will be purified" upon his return from a mission in Europe in the 1960s. Smith was skeptical of the Church becoming heavily involved in American politics, viewing Benson's fascination with politics as distasteful and inappropriate for an apostle. He considered it "unseemly" and "disreputable." Smith also saw Benson as a conspiracy theorist, distinguishing standard conservative politics (like that of Dwight Eisenhower or David McKay) from conspiracy theory. Smith hoped Benson's time away would rid him of these inclinations, allowing him to return as an apostle rather than an aspiring amateur politician. This highlights that "real deep divides" can exist even within the conservative camp. Controversial LDS Orthodoxy Perhaps Smith's most enduring theological contribution was his role in developing the idea of orthodoxy within the Latter-day Saint tradition. Orthodoxy, an older Protestant concept particularly associated with John Calvin, posits that being a faithful member requires believing certain things and that incorrect beliefs can jeopardize salvation. This was not a central idea in the early Christian Church's first century. Smith, possibly influenced by Protestant fundamentalism, began insisting in the mid-20th century that belief is actually really important and that believing "the correct ideas" were crucial because incorrect beliefs could "ruin your salvation." He defended this notion vigorously. Historically, while early Christianity saw debates over ideas like the Trinity, and Roman Catholicism emphasized sacraments and art for teaching, the strong push for average members to understand and adhere to correct doctrine emerged from the Reformed Protestant tradition. Smith's emphasis on orthodoxy gained significant traction in the church. When he became President, many members of the Quorum of the Twelve were individuals he ...

    1 min

  3. 4D AGO

    Joseph Fielding Smith: History, Bias, & Shaping Mormon Thought (Bowman 3 of 4)

    Joseph Fielding Smith, a towering figure in the 20th-century Latter-day Saint landscape, is often remembered as a theologian and Church leader. But his long tenure as Church Historian also positioned him as a key interpreter of Mormon history, an area where his approach offers a fascinating case study in the relationship between faith, perspective, and the writing of the past. Our recent discussion drawing from the sources explored this complex legacy, highlighting Smith's contributions alongside critical insights into the nature of historical objectivity and bias. https://youtu.be/EyAoFsz9mn0 Church Historian When Joseph Fielding Smith became Church Historian, he faced the significant challenge of organizing sprawling, uncatalogued collections. He initiated processes that professionalized the church archives, particularly after World War II, by creating finding aids, dividing materials into collections, making lists, and microfilming documents. However, from the perspective of a professional academic historian, Smith's method of engaging with historical sources differed markedly. He treated certain documents, like the Bible and those produced by figures he considered revelators such as Joseph Smith Jr. and Joseph F. Smith, as entirely reliable and didn't subject them to critical interrogation. This lack of "suspicion of sources"—the practice of asking who wrote a document, when, and what biases they might have—is highlighted as a key distinction between Smith and professional academics. His influential book, Essentials in Church History, exemplifies this approach, treating "official LDS sources" uncritically, yet it became a foundational text shaping LDS understanding of their history for decades. This brings us to a core concept in academic historical study: the non-existence of "objective history." Writing academic history itself is considered a bias. The aim for professional historians is not to eliminate bias, which is seen as impossible, but rather to be acutely aware of bias—both in the sources they use and in their own perspectives—and to account for it in their work. This requires adhering to methods and principles developed over generations of scholarship. Mature scholarship involves being frank about one's own point of view and how it might influence interpretations. Trying to pretend one is objective is seen as a mistake. Richard Bushman is presented as an example of a scholar who openly discusses his background and how it might shape his work. RLDS Polygamy Skeptics The sources also reveal how bias can influence not just conclusions, but the very questions a historian thinks to ask—or doesn't ask. While "motivated reasoning" (steering sources to a predetermined conclusion) exists, it might be less common than bias manifesting in the kinds of questions that arise from a historian's background and positionality. The discussion used the example of Richard and Pamela Price's hypothesis regarding the influence of Cochranites on the Quorum of the Twelve and the practice of polygamy. While the Prices found evidence of contact between the groups, they reportedly don't account for the significant chronological gap between this contact and the public announcement of polygamy. This failure to ask about or explain this gap is suggested as stemming from their predisposition to believe the Quorum of the Twelve were the originators of polygamy. Most Influential Writer Joseph Fielding Smith was a prolific writer. Beyond Essentials in Church History, other notable works include The Way to Perfection, a narrative history of humanity from pre-existence to afterlife, where he explicitly stated his views on race. He also authored Man His Origin and Destiny (1954), which he considered his most important book, responding to higher criticism of the Bible and the theory of evolution. Perhaps his most widely read work during his lifetime was his "My Question" column in the Improvement Era church magazine,

    31 min

  4. 6D AGO

    Joseph Fielding Smith Evolution

    Joseph Fielding Smith: evolution was not something he thought highly of. The son of Joseph F. Smith and grandson of Hyrum Smith, was a prominent figure in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As an apostle from 1910 and later Church President, he became known for his strong defense of traditional doctrines, often clashing with those who sought to reconcile faith with modern scientific and academic thought. https://youtu.be/8Kq1TVQBQtE Don't miss our other conversations about this book! https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/joseph-fielding-smith/ Joseph Fielding Smith Evolution One of the most famous conflicts involved the theory of evolution and the age of the Earth. Smith staunchly opposed the idea of an old earth, particularly the notion of human-like creatures or pre-Adamites living before Adam and Eve. His core objection wasn't simply to evolution itself, but to the idea that there could have been death before the Fall of Adam and Eve. Smith believed that death entered the world because of the Fall, and if death existed before then, it would undermine the necessity and efficacy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. This principle of no death before the Fall was central to his arguments. This perspective led to direct clashes with contemporaries like James E. Talmage and John A. Widtsoe, who were generally more open to scientific ideas. The most notable dispute involved B.H. Roberts's book manuscript, The Truth, The Way, The Life, which attempted to reconcile a very old Earth and the possibility of pre-Adamites with the Genesis account. Roberts proposed that Adam and Eve were the first humans with souls, not necessarily the first biological humans. As a member of the church's publications committee, Smith absolutely rejected Roberts's ideas, protesting their publication to the Quorum of the Twelve and the First Presidency. While this conflict brewed behind the scenes, Smith publicly denounced the idea of an old Earth and pre-Adamites in a speech. In response, Talmage gave a talk endorsing the possibility of an older Earth, highlighting some public disagreement among church leaders. Ultimately, the First Presidency chose not to endorse either side and requested both men cease public conflict on the issue, preventing Roberts's book from being published at that time. Smith, however, outlived many of his contemporaries and later published his own book, Man His Origin and Destiny, which strongly attacked Darwinism and the higher criticism of the Bible. Family Trauma Smith's career as a defender of traditional beliefs was significantly shaped by his upbringing and early experiences. His father, Joseph F. Smith, was called to testify before Congress during the Reed Smoot hearings. During these hearings, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (RLDS), led by descendants of Joseph Smith Jr., saw an opportunity. Richard Evans, an RLDS apostle, issued broadsides accusing the LDS Church of corruption, denouncing Brigham Young for originating polygamy and blood atonement, and claiming the RLDS Church was the true successor to Joseph Smith. This became a "family feud.” Joseph F. Smith was infuriated and asked his son, Joseph Fielding Smith, to refute Richard Evans. This charge launched Joseph Fielding Smith into a career of research and writing, focusing on apologetics – the defense of religious beliefs. He published pamphlets refuting Evans, arguing that polygamy originated with Joseph Smith Jr., not Brigham Young. This pamphlet feud led to exchanges in newspaper op-ed pages and solidified Smith's path. He began working in the Church Historian's office during this time and soon became Church Historian, serving for decades until he became Church President in 1970. Fight with Academics His long tenure as Church Historian meant he had significant influence. Unlike contemporaries like Talmage, Widtsoe, Joseph Merrill, Adam Bennion, and B.H.

    19 min

  5. MAY 23

    Newest Biography of Joseph Fielding Smith

    Dr. Matthew Bowman has just released a new biography on Joseph Fielding Smith. Bowman is the Howard W. Hunter Chair of Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California. The Mormon Studies chair Bowman holds at Claremont Graduate University is the oldest in the country, having been established over 15 years ago. Bowman is the third person to hold the chair, following Richard Bushman and Patrick Mason. Patrick Mason left Claremont to take the chair at Utah State University. https://youtu.be/6VrK15TQVcY Don’t miss our other episodes with Dr Matthew Bowman! https://gospeltangents.com/people/matthew-bowman/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. Mormon Studies Other Mormon studies chairs exist at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley (held by Deidre J Green), and the University of Virginia. Although not directly affiliated with Claremont, the late Jan Shipps is credited with making the study of the Mormon tradition a legitimate academic pursuit for those outside the tradition, enabling universities like Claremont without historical ties to Mormonism to establish such a chair. Before the endowed chair, Anne Taves, a professor interested in Mormonism, taught American religious history at CGU, and Armand Mauss was involved in fundraising and occasionally taught classes. Introductions to Mormon Thought Bowman is also involved in the "Introductions to Mormon Thought" book series, which he co-edits with Joseph Spencer. Published by the University of Illinois, the series aims to stimulate the growth of Mormon intellectual history through accessible introductory volumes on important Mormon thinkers. The series broadly defines "Mormon thinkers" to include artists like CCA Christensen and Minerva Teichert, alongside more traditional intellectuals. The books are intended to be short, accessible, and explore how these individuals influenced how members of the Mormon tradition understood themselves. The series uses the term "Mormon" intentionally broadly to encompass all denominations and movements originating from Joseph Smith's work, including fundamentalist Mormons and figures from the Community of Christ. While initially planned for 10-15 books, the series is doing well and is expected to continue. Other volumes in the series cover figures such as Eugene England (by Christine Hagund), Vardis Fisher (by Mike Austin), Sonia Johnson (by Chris Talbot), Lowell Bennion (by George Handley), Hugh Nibley (by Joseph Spencer), and Richard Bushman (by JB Haws). A future volume is planned on Eliza R. Snow (by Deidre Green), and Bowman hopes for one on Sheri Dew. Joseph Fielding Smith Bowman chose to write his book in the series about Joseph Fielding Smith, though his initial interest was in Bruce R. McConkie. He agreed to write about Smith instead to secure another author's participation in the series. Bowman views Joseph Fielding Smith as Bruce R. McConkie's intellectual parent and considers him the most significant LDS theologian of the 20th century, leaving a deeper and more persistent mark than others like James E. Talmage. While McConkie was influential, Bowman sees him more as a systematizer of his father-in-law's ideas rather than being an original. Other significant 20th/21st-century Mormon thinkers mentioned include B.H. Roberts, Margarita Bautista, Sheri Dew, and Leverne Parmley.. A significant fact about Joseph Fielding Smith is that he was the grandson of Hyrum Smith and the son of Joseph F. Smith. Bowman emphasizes that being a "Smith" was incredibly important to Fielding Smith, shaping his sense of duty and responsibility to continue his family's work. His memories of his father and uncle's violent deaths and his father's need to hide from federal marshals profoundly influenced him, fostering a sense of defensiveness and a perception that the world was hostile and persecuted the family f...

    25 min

  6. MAY 21

    Margaret Toscano Reflects on Faith, Pain, & Legacy of Sept 6 (4 of 4)

    In our final conversation with Dr Margaret Toscano, we'll discuss the chapter in Sara Patterson's book, "The Sept 6 & the Struggle for the Soul of Mormonism." Margaret will discuss her and her husband Paul's reaction to Sara's descriptions of them in the book. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/LqxYh6QHY3E Don’t miss our other conversations about the Sept Six: https://gospeltangents.com/mormon_history/sept-six/ Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Beyond the Sept 6 More than two decades after the events known as the "Sept 6," Margaret Toscano offers a candid look back, reflecting on the pain of excommunication, the evolution of her personal beliefs, and how she and her husband, Paul Toscano, hope to be remembered beyond that defining moment. Margaret highlights what she feels Patterson's book misses about her and others' journeys since 2003. Toscano reveals that her 2003 interview, featured in the book, captured a time of significant pain. Being kicked out of one's church, even for someone who might not be a "Believer," is deeply painful, particularly when it's tied to one's heritage and family, a sentiment she notes is also true for others like David Wright. She is proud of her ability to navigate that pain and notes the documentation of it in the book is important. Contrary to advice she received to simply "walk away" from Mormonism to heal, Toscano felt compelled to stay engaged. She identifies as Mormon, distinguishing this from being LDS (a member of the LDS Church), and views it as her ethnicity and heritage. This identity is crucial to her, and she has continued to write, research, and discuss Mormon issues, currently working on a book about Heavenly Mother.. Over the past twenty years, Toscano's spiritual journey has evolved. While not a "true believing Mormon," she has reached a point where she can openly say she is a Believer on some level, a stance she felt ashamed of years ago. Her ideas of God are complex and not aligned with traditional Mormon views, but she believes in God, an afterlife, and the soul. She describes herself as a "skeptic believer," a person who doubts everything but has also had experiences that affirm her faith. Crucially, she feels able to claim her spirituality openly, something she couldn't do as easily two decades prior. She asserts that being a scholar and an intellectual is compatible with having faith. A major point of reflection for Toscano is the legacy she and Paul desire. They explicitly state they do not want the September Six to be the sole definition of who they were. Margaret doesn't want to be remembered "simply as a dissident," nor does Paul want to be remembered simply as one of the Sept 6. Toscano highlights that Paul's faith journey continued significantly after 2007, when the book reportedly leaves him having lost his faith. Paul has since "found his faith again," seeing himself as a Mormon Christian with a deep testimony of Jesus Christ, which informs his interpretation of the Book of Mormon and his extensive writing. Margaret is immensely proud of Paul's intellectual output, which includes some fifteen books—theology, memoir, novels, essays, and more. She wishes for him to be remembered primarily as a "man of Mormon letters," an important Mormon intellectual, and a brilliant writer. As for herself, Toscano hopes to be remembered as an important Mormon scholar and a beloved teacher at the University of Utah, emphasizing her continued work and care for the Mormon community. She underscores the importance of remembering and being remembered, noting her critique that the book overlooks the continued contributions and experiences of many involved in the 1993 events, including her own work and relationships since 2003. Toscano also touches on the changes she's observed in Mormon studies and at the Sunstone conference, where she was a frequent participant for decades..

    29 min

  7. MAY 20

    Don’t Ask Peggy Fletcher Stack’s Opinion! (4 of 4)

    I asked about Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion. Central to Peggy's thirty-plus-year career is her unwavering commitment to journalistic ethics and objectivity. https://youtu.be/yFqxStPt0NA Remember, this is a secret episode. Sign up at gospeltangents.com/newsletter to get the link to the secret episode emailed to you. Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Peggy Fletcher Stack's Opinion She is asked daily about her personal faith but maintains it is "not for public disclosure," stating she is a "person of faith" who respects others but keeps her own private. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She actively avoids expressing personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. This commitment means she receives criticism from all sides, even noting she gets "more hate mail than our sports reporters." She highlights the challenge that some readers and even sources don't grasp why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give the LDS Church the "last word." She explains her approach to sourcing often prioritizes current "stakeholders" within a faith community for present-day issues, while respecting former members' perspectives on their personal journeys but finding them less ideal sources for current church affairs. Dramatic Transformation in Journalism The conversation also underscores the dramatic transformation in journalism brought by the internet. Contrasting with her early freelance days in Kenya where in-person interviews and library research were essential, online resources now make research significantly easier. However, this ease has contributed to journalism becoming a 24/7 job, with constant demands and potentially less emphasis on crucial in-person reporting. Peggy cautions that younger reporters can sometimes mistake online "buzz" for broad public concern, stressing the importance of understanding what "average believers in the pew" are discussing. Peggy also touched on the dramatic transformation in journalism due to the internet, contrasting her early freelance days in Kenya with the 24/7 nature of reporting today. While online resources make research easier, the constant demand and decreased emphasis on in-person reporting present new challenges. Despite these challenges and the constant criticism, Peggy finds her job exciting, enjoying the process of analyzing and connecting the dots. She has no immediate plans to retire, suggesting the 2034 Olympics as a potential bookend for her career since her first story coincided with Salt Lake's losing the 1998 Olympic bid to Japan. Why Her Faith is Off-Limits Stepping back into the conversation with Peggy Fletcher Stack of the Salt Lake Tribune, the discussion moved beyond her career origins to highlight the core principle for Peggy is journalistic ethics and objectivity. She firmly believes a credible journalist cannot be an opinion writer. She gets asked daily about her own faith but maintains it's not for public disclosure, as her role is to report fairly on all faiths. She consciously avoids expressing her personal opinions on politics or religion in her reporting or on social media. While her choice of stories and sources reveals focus, she strives for neutrality in her own voice. She illustrated the challenge of this by describing how people, including some within the LDS Churc don't always understand why journalists don't simply adopt a specific viewpoint or give one source the "last word." This commitment to reporting on conflict, even when it's sensitive, means she receives criticism from all sides, sometimes even more hate mail than sports reporters. Do you agree with why Peggy Fletcher Stack's opinion is not for public consumption.

    26 sec

  8. MAY 18

    “We Don’t Apologize” (Peggy Fletcher Stack 3 of 4)

    We discuss 2 important moments in Peggy Fletcher Stack's career: "We don't apologize," and "What about the women? Peggy Fletcher Stack is the senior religion reporter at the Salt Lake Tribune. The focus of the conversation turns to the persistent challenges within religious coverage and the dramatic evolution of the journalistic landscape itself. For Peggy, certain topics consistently emerge as central "pressure points" or "conflicts." Drawing on Apostle Boyd K. Packer's 1993 speech, she observes that issues surrounding feminists, gays, and intellectuals have dominated her reporting because, as she puts it, journalists cover "planes that crash," not "planes that land on time." https://youtu.be/KmaKAKKtyH4 Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved LGBTQ+ Issues She highlights the continued intensity of LGBTQ+ issues, noting they remain "very very hot." Her archive reveals nearly 700 articles containing the word "gay," underscoring its consistent prominence. While public protests on issues like ordination might have decreased since events like Kate Kelly's excommunication, Peggy firmly states that gender issues have "absolutely not died down," citing ongoing concerns among younger women and pushes on topics like allowing young women to pass the sacrament or women sitting on the stand. "We Don't Apologize" Moment Peggy Fletcher Stack recalls a meeting with Apostles Todd Christofferson and Dallen H. Oaks around the time the church was announcing a "compromise" on LGBTQ+ issues. She asked them, in the context of trying to promote civil discourse, if the church would ever apologize for the rhetoric of some members on this topic as a way to improve civility. Elder Oaks responded directly, "No. We never apologize." Peggy notes that this response to a specific question was later interpreted by some as being a statement of general church policy, which she clarified was not the case. She also mentions that Elder Oaks repeated a similar sentiment on a video podcast (Trib Talk no longer exists), stating that apology "isn't in the Bible," which caused a "huge flap" and led to people blaming her, the messenger. She said this illustrates how something said can come to be seen as policy. The "What About the Women?" Question Peggy describes a press conference in January or February 2018 with President Russell M. Nelson and Elder Oaks where reporters were limited to one question each. Peggy had prepared a question asking what would be done to increase diversity in leadership, specifically mentioning "women, people of color, and non-Americans." President Nelson's initial response was to focus on his personal connection to Peggy and her family, an "awkward moment" for her. After speaking about non-Americans, and feeling they were finishing their answer without addressing women, Peggy, despite the one-question limit, called out from her seat, "What about women?" President Nelson then spoke about loving women, highlighting his daughters and mothers. Peggy characterized this moment, which occurred on live KSL TV, as a "weird existential moment" balancing the personal and professional. Ironically, she felt it ended up being a "win-win" for her, as critics from different perspectives interpreted the interaction in ways that subtly improved her standing with them. Don’t miss our other conversations with Peggy: https://gospeltangents.com/people/peggy-fletcher-stack/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved

    16 min
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About

Gospel Tangents explores Mormon History, Science, Theology, and is a resource to learn more about real Mormon History by interviewing historians, scientists, experts, and authors. These podcasts will help generate future documentaries.

Information

  • Creator
    Rick B
  • Years Active
    2017 - 2025
  • Episodes
    200
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved
  • Show Website
    Gospel Tangents Podcast

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