Gospel Tangents Podcast

Rick B
  • 4.5 (127)
  • CHRISTIANITY
  • UPDATED DAILY

A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

  1. 5H AGO

    Historic Vote! Stassi Cramm 1st Female Prophet-Pres of CoC!

    History was made Sunday night in Independence, Missouri. The Community of Christ gathered for the election and ordination of the 1st female prophet president in Community of Christ. It was a a momentous occasion. The focus of the event was Stassi Cramm, who was anticipated to take on this significant leadership role, following Steven Veazey’s retirement. She became the 1st female prophet-president of Community of Christ, and just the 2nd female leader of a Restoration Church since Pauline Hancock. https://youtu.be/y63w2GfFc8Y Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission A New Era Begins Independence, MO – June 1st, 2025 marked a truly historic day for the Community of Christ, as Stassi Cramm was officially ordained as the new prophet-president. This momentous event, which occurred during the Community of Christ World Conference in Independence, not only signifies a new chapter for the church but also positions Cramm as the first female prophet-president of the Community of Christ. She is also recognized as one of the few female leaders in the broader Restoration movement, following Pauline Hancock. The atmosphere leading up to the ordination was charged with anticipation and excitement. The World Conference began with procedural matters, including a review of rules and the dissolution of the First Presidency. On May 31st, 2025, Stassi Cramm formally accepted her nomination for the role. Road to the Vote Throughout May 31st, caucus meetings were held to discuss the upcoming vote25. Reports from these meetings indicated strong support for Stassi Cramm. The evangelist quorum showed "full support," and in the high priest quorum, "nobody opposed," although some individuals did abstain from voting. While some anticipated that the vote might not be entirely unanimous, the overall sentiment suggested a "slam dunk.” The vote itself was scheduled for 2:00 PM Central time on June 1st, 2025. 1st Female Prophet The ordination service itself was described as "amazing" and "spirit-filled.” Attendees enthusiastically sang "The Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning.” There was a palpable sense of "hope" and inspiration among the congregants. The anthem "We'll Rise and we’ll Shout!" was notably sung with great passion, with the organist deeply engaged. Deb Luce remarked on the excitement, expressing that Stassi Cramm had "sparked that [hope] a little bit more" and emphasized the importance of holding onto existing doctrines. For those who might harbor reservations about female ordination, the message was clear: "harden not your hearts" and "allow the spirit to speak.” It was also highlighted that "the voice of God is not a spirit of contention" and that "God won't divide us.” A Legacy of Firsts Stassi Cramm's ordination as prophet-president on June 1st, 2025, is a significant milestone, making her the first woman to hold this top leadership position in the Community of Christ. This historic occasion was eagerly awaited, with many anticipating it would be a "history making day.” As one witness to the event noted, it was "awesome" to be there for this moment. Stassi went on to reorganize the Council of 12 Apostles. With some retiring and reassigning others, 6 new apostles were called; Mareva Tchong was reassigned from President of the Apostles to become the new Presiding Evangelist (what LDS would call the Presiding Patriarch.) It was awesome to attend World Conference and witness the 1st female prophet be ordained in the Community of Christ. I'm hoping to get Stassi Cramm on an interview in September. I hope it happens! Check out the video to witness the events of this historic event! What are your thoughts on the news? Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission

    10 min

  2. 16H AGO

    Why RLDS Finances are STILL in Trouble (John Hamer 6 of 6)

    The Community of Christ has sold the Kirtland Temple and several Nauvoo properties to the LDS Church for a jaw-dropping $200 million. But RLDS finances are still shaky! That money is only expected to keep the church afloat for about five years. Historian John Hamer joins us to explain why he thinks the deal could have been much better, why he’s disappointed there are still no openly gay apostles, and to share his brutally honest thoughts on Steven Veazey’s leadership. Stick around—this conversation pulls no punches. John is the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism. https://youtu.be/F3sTvJCWD3c Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Deep Dive into the Kirtland Temple Sale & Path Forward The recent sale of the Kirtland Temple sent shockwaves through the Latter Day Saint movement, and for the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS). It highlighted significant and ongoing financial challenges. John Hamer, a Community of Christ historian and Seventy, has offered candid insights into the church's financial state, the controversial temple sale, and his hopes for the future. Kirtland Temple Sale: A "Pittance" and a Crisis of Legitimacy The sale of the Kirtland Temple to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) for less than $200 million was a deeply troubling event for many in the Community of Christ. John Hamer describes the price as a "pittance," emphasizing that the property's value, particularly in terms of "legitimacy" for the LDS Church, is "priceless" and far exceeds the sale amount. He provocatively suggests that the LDS Church, with its "hundreds of billions of dollars," would not sell the temple for even $200 billion. A major point of contention was the lack of transparency and consultation surrounding the sale. The decision was made "in secret," without any input from the World Conference, the church's "giant legislature". This went against historical precedent, as a previous General Conference had determined that a revelation would be necessary to sell the Kirtland Temple, which had originally been built by revelation. Hamer views the sale as a missed opportunity, stating that it was sold for "a third of what was necessary" for the church to achieve a "sustainable endowment for operations" (which he estimates would have required $600 million.) He suggested that a wealthy family foundation within the Community of Christ could have acquired the assets for the same price, held them as an investment, and then sold them to the LDS Church for a significantly higher amount later, but this option was not considered. Broader RLDS Financial Woes and Leadership Accountability The Kirtland Temple sale is just one symptom of deeper financial struggles within the Community of Christ: Declining Tithing to Headquarters: Over the 20-year tenure of former prophet-president Steve Veazey, "tithing to headquarters... has gone down so precipitously," with only around 6,000 members in the United States and Canada contributing to the world church. Hamer attributes this partly to members feeling their input is ignored when resolutions from the World Conference are ruled "out of order" by the executive leadership. High Operating Costs: The Community of Christ headquarters apparatus costs approximately $2.5 million annually to operate, while its current income is less than $10 million. Unsustainable Endowment: The endowment established to perpetually fund the Independence Temple was, in Hamer's opinion, "invested not like a responsible investor would do" and became "not worth anything" during Veazey's leadership. Unfunded pension obligations also contributed to the financial crisis. Short-Term Fix: The $200 million from the Kirtland Temple sale is projected to sustain headquarters only until "up through 2030," after which "anything goes".

    1 min

  3. 3D AGO

    How John Hamer Changed RLDS Succession History (5 of 6)

    Changes in RLDS Succession Last Spring, John Hamer gave a monumental address about RLDS succession at the JWHA Meetings that literally changed RLDS History. Pres-prophet Steven Veazey had announced his pending retirement in 2 years and said he would choose a successor. John argued in his address that if Veazey did so, it would make his presidency illegitimate as well as whoever he picked. So, the process was changed as a result of his address. He'll give more details. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/2rQnCWIYxqE John is the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism. Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved From Monarchical Tendencies to a "Prophetic People" Historically, leadership in the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), now Community of Christ, was heavily influenced by the Joseph Smith lineage. Joseph Smith III's succession, recognized by the General Conference (World Conference), established two pillars of legitimacy: appointment by the predecessor and the "royal line" of Joseph Smith, which was seen as holy according to the Book of Mormon. William Smith, brother of Joseph Smith, actively promoted the idea of a Smith "royal seed," drawing parallels to James, the brother of Jesus, leading the early Christian church. However, this tradition soon saw shifts. Joseph III's son, Frederick M. Smith, introduced the concept of "supreme directional control," concentrating power in the First Presidency, which he led. This led to significant internal conflicts, including the resignation of the entire Presiding Bishopric and the departure of prominent figures like R.C. Evans, who felt sidelined despite his own aspirations for leadership. The Smith lineage continued through Joseph III's sons until Wallace B. Smith, a grandson, took the helm. He was a "progressive leader" who, in 1984, initiated the end of priesthood discrimination based on gender (D&C 156), a move that led to schism within the church as "restorationist" groups broke away. Importantly, Wallace B. Smith broke from the Smith lineage tradition by appointing a non-Smith, W. Grant McMurray, as his successor. Grant McMurray's tenure marked another pivotal shift. In D&C 162, he articulated a vision of the church as a "prophetic people, not just a people with a prophet," introducing a new pillar of legitimacy that emphasized discernment and input from the wider church body. This concept challenged the previous monarchical tendencies and opened the door for more democratic forms of leadership. Crisis and Controversy: The Kirtland Temple Sale and Succession Plans Grant McMurray's abrupt resignation in 2004, without appointing a successor, created a succession crisis, effectively breaking the chain of appointment. In response, a special World Conference was called, and the First Presidency assigned the Council of Twelve Apostles to choose the next prophet, who turned out to be Steve Veazey. Steve Veazey's 20-year presidency, however, was marked by significant financial struggles for the church, leading to an "unmitigated decline". This culminated in the controversial sale of the historic Kirtland Temple for less than $200 million. Critics, including historian John Hamer, argued that the sale was conducted "in secret" and for "a pittance," insufficient for the church's long-term financial sustainability. The World Conference had previously required a revelation to sell the Kirtland Temple, highlighting the lack of transparency in the recent transaction. Adding to the controversy, Steve Veazey announced a plan to personally select his successor. John Hamer publicly argued that this move would "retroactively completely delegitimize" Veazey's tenure and render his chosen successor illegitimate, as it contradicted the principle of a "prophetic people" and the broken chain of appo...

    38 min

  4. 5D AGO

    RLDS-Temple Lot Competition (John Hamer 4 of 6)

    John Hamer makes the surprising argument that the Auditorium is, in fact, a Community of Christ temple on the Temple Lot!  This is a claim even many RLDS members have never heard. Why does he say this? It ties back to the unfinished temple project of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), also known as the Hedrickites. For a time, the two churches were essentially constructing rival temples side by side on the historic temple lot. Join us as we dive into this fascinating story! https://youtu.be/eWnSy5Qeh9k John is the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism. Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved The concept and construction of temples have been a central, yet often contentious, aspect of the Restoration movement. While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) is well-known for its extensive temple building, other branches of the Restoration tradition have also grappled with their own unique visions and challenges regarding sacred spaces. Historian John Hamer sheds light on the fascinating, and sometimes fraught, history of temple competition and diverse practices among groups like the Community of Christ (formerly RLDS), the Hedrickites, Strangites, and Cutlerites. The Community of Christ's Dual Temple Vision For the Community of Christ, the idea of a "temple" has taken on multiple forms, leading to what some might see as competing sacred spaces. The Auditorium as a Temple: The Community of Christ Auditorium, located on the "greater Temple Lot" in Independence, Missouri, was envisioned by Fred M. Smith as a temple, though he used the modern term "auditorium". Construction began in 1929 during the Great Depression, incurring significant debt. This massive structure, designed for conferences, worship, training, learning, and church headquarters offices, aligned with Joseph Smith III's earlier vision for an Independence temple. Hamer explicitly states that the Auditorium is the temple for the reorganization, a fact often overlooked even within the Community of Christ itself. The Independence Temple: Despite the Auditorium's existence, Fred M. Smith's brother, W. Wallace Smith, who succeeded him as prophet, received revelations about the need to build a temple. This led to the construction of the architecturally magnificent "Spiral Temple," also known as the Community of Christ Temple. Its design incorporates the Fibonacci sequence, symbolizing divine ratios and connecting to ancient Greek civilization, and was a significant draw for Hamer to join the Community of Christ. Hamer suggests that the lack of institutional memory regarding the Auditorium's original purpose might have contributed to the decision to build a second temple. Hedrickites and the Battle for the Temple Lot The Church of Christ (Temple Lot), also know as the Hedrickites the earliest Restoration branch to return to Jackson County, Missouri. They hold a key portion of "the Temple Lot". This property was part of a much larger parcel Edward Partridge originally bought for a total of 24 temples. RLDS Aggression and Backfire: The RLDS Church made aggressive attempts to acquire this land through lawsuits and a "sneaky" plan for "free association". The idea was to absorb the tiny Temple Lot Church, which at the time had minimal active leadership. Otto Fetting/Competing Structures: This plan dramatically backfired when a thousand RLDS members, including Otto Fetting, transferred their membership to the Temple Lot Church. Otto Fetting then began receiving revelations to build a temple, which, strikingly, was designed as an Auditorium-like structure with assembly halls and offices, echoing the former RLDS members' understanding of temples. This created a direct architectural and spiritual competition with the Community of Christ's Auditorium. The Hedrickites believe they found cornerstones ...

    48 min

  5. AUG 23

    How Sidney Rigdon Still Affects LDS Succession (John Hamer 3 of 6)

    The struggle for leadership of the LDS Church between Sidney Rigdon and Brigham Young still echoes today. One lasting outcome is the practice of dissolving the First Presidency at the prophet’s death—a move meant to underscore that Rigdon was never recognized as Joseph Smith’s rightful successor. Historian John Hamer of the Community of Christ joins us to examine Rigdon’s claims, even arguing that Sidney may have had the strongest case for leadership. We’ll also explore the church Rigdon established, now the third-largest “Mormon” denomination. Don’t miss this fascinating discussion! https://youtu.be/jWzGoa9LXXQ Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved We delve deep into the complexities of LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and RLDS (Community of Christ) succession after the death of Joseph Smith in 1844, and how this crisis shaped the leadership structures and beliefs of both churches. LDS Succession after Joseph Smith's Death (1844) Lack of a Defined System: There was no pre-existing system for succession written in the Doctrine and Covenants. The process that unfolded was largely shaped by the personalities and power dynamics of the time. Sidney Rigdon's Claim: Sidney Rigdon, Joseph Smith's counselor in the First Presidency, claimed the role of "guardian" of the church. This was akin to a regent in a monarchy, intended to lead until Joseph Smith III, who was then a child, could assume leadership. Brigham Young's Maneuver: Brigham Young argued that following the martyrdom, a prophet in the flesh was no longer needed, and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles should act as the First Presidency. This led to the group initially being called "Twelve-ites" by other branches. Timeframe to Leadership: It took three years for Brigham Young to transition from the president of the Quorum of the Twelve to the official prophet of the church. During this period, he acted as "acting president". Elimination of Rivals and Decentralization of Power: ◦ William Marks and the Standing High Council: William Marks, president of the Standing High Council, was seen as a rival to Brigham Young. The Standing High Council, which had previously held equal or even superior authority to the traveling Quorum of the Twelve, particularly in organized stakes, was effectively demoted into stake high councils. This move eliminated an institutional rival and concentrated power. ◦ Presiding Bishopric: Similarly, the powerful role of the Presiding Bishop, who controlled temporalities and could act as a leadership rival, was demoted by Brigham Young, who created numerous bishops, reducing the role to a congregational position. Retroactive Legitimacy: The LDS Church's practice of dissolving the First Presidency upon the prophet's death and the automatic succession of the senior-most apostle were established to retroactively delegitimize Sidney Rigdon's claim and ensure the legitimacy of subsequent LDS presidents. This automatic succession became rapid over time, especially after Joseph F. Smith, as leaders realized the difficulty of running the church without a quick transition. Non-Apostolic First Presidency: In the early church, the First Presidency (including Hyrum Smith and Sidney Rigdon) was distinct from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Sidney Rigdon's Church and the Bickertonites Rigdon's Failed Efforts: After excommunicating each other, Sidney Rigdon started his own church in Pittsburgh, which eventually atomized.. John Hamer's ancestor, William Winchester, briefly served as one of Rigdon's apostles. Emergence of the Bickertonites: The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonites) originated from a branch in Pittsburgh led by William Bickerton, who had been Rigdon's last apostle. This group reorganized after William Bickerton and his followers broke with Brigham Young's church when poly...

    53 min

  6. AUG 20

    Controversial RLDS Beliefs (John Hamer 2 of 6)

    We'll discuss controversial RLDS beliefs with John Hamer, a Seventy with the Community of Christ. We're focusing on the 1844 succession crisis, its lasting impact on both the LDS and Community of Christ (formerly RLDS) churches. He's the co-author of Scattering of the Saints: Schism Within Mormonism. Don’t miss this fascinating discussion! https://youtu.be/mscrLYLKZs0 00:00 How 1844 Succession Affects Us Today 8:15 How Baptism For Dead Was De-canonized 14:22 Will Book of Mormon Be De-canonized? 24:10 Black Priesthood in Community of Christ 36:37 3 Official Languages in CoC Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Succession Crisis and its Legacy: ◦ The 1844 schism "froze" both churches into peculiar systems, as each justified its own succession to assert legitimacy. ◦ LDS Church Succession: Brigham Young's claim relied on his position as the senior-most apostle, a concept that was not established doctrine in 1844 but emerged from the crisis. ◦ Community of Christ (RLDS) Succession: Joseph Smith III's claim was supported by patriarchal blessings and prophecies. His acceptance of the prophet role in 1860 solidified the General Conference's (legislative) authority to choose the prophet. Sidney Rigdon also made a claim to leadership, presenting himself as a "guardian of the church.” ◦ The Mark Hofmann forgery of Joseph Smith Jr.'s blessing to Joseph Smith III is discussed, noting its incorrect date caused dissonance Jerald & Sandra Tanner. It was acquired by the LDS Church, which then traded it to the RLDS Church for a copy of the Book of Commandments. The RLDS Church put it in the appendix of their version of the Doctrine & Covenants & then later removed this forgery from its historical appendix through a "historical appendectomy.” RLDS Doctrine and Covenants and De-canonization: ◦ The Community of Christ's Doctrine and Covenants is an active scripture, with new sections added through votes by elected representatives at World Conferences. The conference also has the power to remove sections, which it has done several times. ◦ Baptism for the Dead: This practice was removed from the RLDS Doctrine and Covenants, largely due to the church's desire to distance itself from associations with LDS temples and practices, particularly those perceived as "secret" or "embarrassing.” John Hamer expresses a nuanced view, considering it meaningless as a necessary saving ordinance for random names but "incredibly valid and amazing" as a spiritual practice for connecting with cherished ancestors (e.g., Jane Manning James). ◦ Blacks in the Priesthood (RLDS): Joseph Smith III's 1860s revelation allowed black men to hold the priesthood but included a racist caveat to "be not hasty" in ordaining them, reflecting the prevailing societal racism of the 1860s. A recent World Conference resolution to remove this section was voted down, with John Hamer arguing against removal to avoid setting a precedent of "Jefferson Bible" editing scripture. ◦ De-canonization of the Book of Mormon: There's a "dig" (and potential validity) that the Community of Christ "doesn't believe in the Book of Mormon" in the same way other groups do. Some leaders and members, traumatized by the "New Mormon History" and historical-literary criticism suggesting the Book of Mormon is a 19th-century construct, have proposed to "jettison all of this stuff.” However, others, especially older members, find it essential to their identity. John Hamer "firmly anticipates" a resolution to remove the Book of Mormon from the canon, though he personally opposes it. Controversial Beliefs: Understanding Scripture ◦ John Hamer advocates for viewing scripture as "errant, not inerrant.” He believes scripture is a "human response to God's revelation," filled with the "biases and limitations of every prophet.” ◦ He argues against treating scripture as a "perfect idol" or a "literalistic rule book,

    47 min

  7. AUG 18

    Sunstone 50’s Restoration Churches (John Hamer 1 of 6)

    I’m excited to welcome John Hamer back to the show. John is a Seventy in the Community of Christ and a remarkable historian of Restoration Churches. Earlier this month, he was in Utah for the 50th Anniversary of Sunstone, and today we’ll be talking about the many ways to Mormon, including some of the Restoration Churches/schismatic groups that were represented at Sunstone. This episode will be part of a broader conversation about various Latter Day Saint schismatic movements. Join us for the discussion! https://youtu.be/1-hvle_929o Don’t miss our other episodes with John Hamer! https://gospeltangents.com/people/john-hamer/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Exploring the "Multiple Ways to Mormon" at Sunstone's 50th Anniversary The recent 50th anniversary of the Sunstone Symposium in Utah provided a unique opportunity to delve into the rich and diverse landscape of the Mormon culture and restoration heritage. John Hamer is a three-time guest on Gospel Tangents and a Seventy with the Community of Christ. Sunstone serves as an "open diverse forum" that welcomes individuals from all backgrounds, whether they are orthodox LDS, fundamentalists, or members of the Community of Christ. This gathering truly embodies the idea that there is "more than one way to Mormon". There are various schismatic groups that emerged after the pivotal 1844 schism which Joseph Smith died. These groups form distinct branches of the restoration tradition, each with its own unique history and practices. Major Restoration Churches of the Restoration Following the 1844 schism, two primary branches emerged: The Brighamite Branch: This branch is by far the largest expression of the restoration tradition. It includes: ◦ The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). ◦ All of the fundamentalist churches, such as the Apostolic United Brethren (AUB) which is also called “The Work”, & the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS Church). ◦ The "new emerging remnant movement" with Denver Snuffer. The Josephite Branch: Named for Joseph Smith III, this branch includes the Community of Christ, formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Within the Josephite tradition, there are also: ◦ Independent expressions or "restorationists". These groups broke away from the mainline Community of Christ Church over issues like women in the priesthood and lineal succession. Some of these have grouped together in a confederacy of churches, like the Joint Conference of Restoration Branches (JCRB. See our interview with apostle Patrick McKay.) ◦ The Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which is considered a "restorationist church" by Josephites. Figures like Terry Patience, the new prophet-president, and Jim Vun Cannon have been prominent within this church. (Jim now leads a different church, the Everlasting Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Day.) These "Josephite fundamentalists" are distinct from polygamists. Lesser-Known but Significant Restoration Churches Sunstone also provides a platform for understanding smaller, yet historically significant, schismatic groups: The Bickertonites (Church of Jesus Christ with headquarters in Monongahela, Pennsylvania): ◦ They are generally considered the third largest branch to emerge after the 1844 schism, with an estimated 25,000 members. ◦ They see themselves as "the true one true church" and are noted for retaining spiritual gifts from the Kirtland era, including speaking in tongues and spontaneous services. Their services feature spontaneous talks and no pre-written bulletins, similar to practices found in the Centennial Park group. ◦ Their heartlands are primarily in Pittsburgh and Detroit. ◦ Notably, they have recently produced an academically trained historian, Daniel Stone, who has focused on William Bickerton and their own history.

    32 min

  8. AUG 13

    Sonia Johnson Is Different Kind of Lesbian (Chris Talbot 4 of 4)

    Following the dissolution of her marriage, Sonia Johnson came up with her own view of gender essentialism and had some lesbian relationships. Was she bisexual, or a political lesbian? Dr Chris Talbot explains. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/glgWdkMlcJ8 Don’t miss our other episodes with Dr Chris Talbot! https://gospeltangents.com/people/chris-talbot/ Copyright © 2025 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission. Unpacking Sonia Johnson: Relationships, Radical Philosophy, & ERA's Shadowy Politics In a fascinating deep dive with biographer Dr. Chris Talbot, we’ll dive into the life of Mormon feminist Sonia Johnson, particularly after her divorce and excommunication from the LDS Church, we gain intriguing insights into her evolving relationships, her radical philosophy, and the church's complex involvement in the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) debate. Sonia Johnson's Journey: From Excommunication to Political Lesbianism One of the most striking ironies discussed is how the church and conservatives worried that passing the ERA would lead to widespread lesbianism and homosexuality, only for Sonia Johnson herself to become a lesbian. This development, however, was framed less as a sexual reorientation in the conventional sense and more as a "political lesbianism." This phenomenon, as described by historians, involved a conscious choice to devote oneself to women as a collective or "species," building one's life around these devotions, which inherently meant avoiding intimate relationships with men. For Johnson, this commitment stemmed from her profound desire to reject male-centered, patriarchal societal structures; she declared, "No man will ever become the center of my life again". The nature of her sexuality is explored with nuance, acknowledging that sexuality is fluid and not always confined to "discrete categories". While Johnson had four children and didn't seem to have a history of sexual attraction to women prior to her excommunication, this attraction reportedly "grew in her as she moved along" after the traumatic experience. The question of whether she was a "fake lesbian" or "real lesbian" is dismissed as largely a matter of "socially constructed categories". Radical Critique of Relationships Sonia Johnson's post-excommunication relationships were not without their challenges. Her first lesbian relationship, with her therapist, ended poorly due to ethical issues and her partner's managerial role. This experience profoundly shaped Johnson's philosophy on relationships, culminating in her fourth book, The Ship That Sailed into the Living Room. At the heart of her critique was the idea that relationships, by their very nature, are built around hierarchy. Johnson articulated a discomfort with the "driving and being driven" dynamic in sexual encounters, finding it personally, politically, and philosophically troubling. She argued that even in alternating roles, relationships inherently embed a power imbalance. This anti-hierarchy stance extended to her view on monogamy and marriage. She didn't want anyone to marry anyone, viewing monogamous commitments as inherently "restrictive and controlling" of one's sexuality and love. Interestingly, her critique resonated with a small polyamory community in Salt Lake City, who saw her work as a guide to why monogamy was problematic due to its inherent hierarchy. After another unsuccessful relationship, Johnson eventually found a long-term partner, Jade Deforest. Their relationship is built on a unique "touching experiment," detailed in her fifth book, Out of This World. The core principle is self-motivated touching – touching for the pleasure of the act itself, rather than to elicit a specific feeling in the other person. This approach aims to eliminate the perceived hierarchy, as "someone's driving and someone's being driven".

    1 min
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    About

    A 360-degree view of Mormonism. We interview the best Mormon scholars, scientists, and clergy from all restoration branches, including LDS, Community of Christ, Strangites, Bickertonites, Temple Lot, Remnant, etc.

    Information

    • Creator
      Rick B
    • Years Active
      2017 - 2025
    • Episodes
      200
    • Rating
      Clean
    • Copyright
      © 2025 Gospel Tangents - All Rights Reserved
    • Show Website
      Gospel Tangents Podcast

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