How I Lawyer Podcast with Jonah Perlin

Jonah Perlin
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In this podcast Professor Jonah Perlin (Georgetown Law) interviews lawyers from across the profession about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well.

  1. 5D AGO

    #149: Jonathan Z. Cohen - Associate General Counsel, Former Prosecutor, Speaker on Resilience and Mindset

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is Jonathan Z. Cohen, Associate General Counsel for PNY Technologies and Business Development lead for North America. Beyond his corporate role, Jonathan educates lawyers on wellbeing, stress management, and mental fitness through CLEs, keynotes, and workshops. His professional background includes serving as an Assistant District Attorney in the Bronx. Jonathan holds degrees from Muhlenberg College and Touro University Law and School of Business. In this episode, Jonathan shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🧠💪 How his journey from struggling student to accomplished attorney shaped his understanding of personal potential and the power of overcoming limiting narratives [02:01] 🌍✈️ How taking time off before college transformed his discipline, structure, and approach to challenges [03:54] 📚🎓 How he became one of the first graduates of Touro Law's JD/MBA joint degree program, transitioning from academic struggles to graduating in the top of his class [06:43] ⚖️👨‍⚖️ How his experience as a Bronx prosecutor provided invaluable courtroom experience while teaching him to learn from more seasoned attorneys [12:17] 🏢💻 How he transitioned from criminal law to the technology sector, joining PNY Technologies and its partnership with NVIDIA before AI became mainstream [19:35] 😓🧘‍♂️ How the shift from high-stakes prosecution to corporate law allowed his nervous system to "calm down a thousand degrees" while still maintaining professional challenge [23:21] 🔍🧠 How awareness is the foundation of all personal and professional development, especially for managing burnout in the legal profession [32:20] 📝💯 How creating an "evidence frame" list of your credentials and preparation can combat imposter syndrome in high-pressure situations [34:25] 🏃‍♂️🏆 How setting ambitious physical challenges creates structure that positively impacts all areas of life, including professional performance [40:02] 🎓⚖️ Why new lawyers should ignore negative narratives about the profession and recognize that legal training provides skills that can be applied in countless ways [44:54] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    47 min
  2. #148: C.J. Mahoney - Microsoft General Counsel, Former Deputy US Trade Representative, & Law Firm Partner

    AUG 8

    #148: C.J. Mahoney - Microsoft General Counsel, Former Deputy US Trade Representative, & Law Firm Partner

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is C.J. Mahoney, the Corporate Vice President and General Counsel at Microsoft. Before joining Microsoft, C.J. served as the Deputy United States Trade Representative (a position to which he was unanimously confirmed) and was previously a partner at Williams & Connolly. He started his career as a law clerk for Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy after graduating from Yale Law School where he was Editor-in-Chief of the Yale Law Journal and attending Harvard University. C.J. was also one of Jonah'sfirst legal supervisors when he was a summer associate at Williams & Connolly 15 years ago. In this episode, C.J. shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🏙️🧩 How growing up in a small Kansas town where lawyers were well-respected influenced his decision to pursue law as a career path [1:59] 🎓⚖️ How his journey through Yale Law School and prestigious clerkships ultimately led him to realize he wanted to learn how to try cases rather than focus solely on appellate work [3:46] 🔄🌟 How his career path wasn't as linear as it might appear on LinkedIn, but rather involved being open to new opportunities and distinguishing himself from other talented lawyers [6:48] 📝💼 How his litigation skills proved surprisingly transferable when he moved to trade negotiations, particularly in synthesizing complex information and cross-examining experts [14:19] 🧠📊 How the ability to take complex facts and make them understandable is a superpower that has served him well across different roles [18:13] ✍️🔍 How writing things down and putting concepts in your own words is crucial for learning new areas and sharpening your thinking [18:44] ⚖️💻 How his perspective on litigation changed dramatically once he moved in-house and saw firsthand the burden it places on businesses [24:52] 🤝💯 How building trust is the most important aspect of managing people, particularly in creating an environment where people feel comfortable bringing bad news [27:12] 🌐🔮 How the intersection of AI advancement and political polarization creates unique challenges and opportunities for lawyers in the technology sector [34:11] ⏳🏆 How sticking it out through hard times at a law firm and building a strong foundation was one of the best career decisions he made [41:06] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    44 min
  3. #147: William Treanor - Former Georgetown Law Dean

    AUG 1

    #147: William Treanor - Former Georgetown Law Dean

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is William (Bill) Treanor, who recently stepped down as Dean of Georgetown University Law Center after serving for 15 years. Before Georgetown, Bill was a professor and later Dean at Fordham Law School for 20 years. His legal career began as a law clerk to Judge James L. Oakes of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and as associate counsel during the Iran-Contra Investigations. From 1998 to 2001, he served as Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Legal Counsel. Bill holds degrees from Yale University, Yale Law School, and a PhD in history from Harvard University. In this episode, Bill shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🎓🔄 How a pivotal lunch conversation with Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. changed his career trajectory and led him to pursue both a JD and PhD to maximize his impact on future generations [03:00] 👨‍⚖️🔎 How his experience working on the Iran-Contra investigation provided invaluable trial experience and showed him the importance of thinking on your feet in high-pressure situations [09:00] ⚖️👨‍🏫 How he unexpectedly transitioned from government service to academia when Fordham Law offered him a tenure-track position rather than the visiting role he initially sought [19:00] 📚🏛️ How his early teaching experience involved staying just one week ahead of his students in property law courses – demonstrating the importance of adaptability in legal education [21:00] 🌟🏢 How his decision to pursue a deanship was motivated by a desire for more tangible impact and the opportunity to work with teams to build institutions [24:00] 🎯🔄 How serendipity and a handful of phone calls played crucial roles in his career transitions, including his move from Fordham to Georgetown [32:00] 💰🎓 How his commitment to expanding access to legal education was inspired by his family history and led to doubling financial aid and creating opportunity scholarships at Georgetown [35:00] 🧩🔍 How the RISE program has transformed outcomes for students from backgrounds without exposure to law, with many becoming Law Journal editors and Student Bar Association presidents [36:00] ⏱️🔑 How the average law school dean tenure of four years is insufficient to make meaningful change, and why he advocates for longer-term commitments to leadership positions [41:00] 🌱💼 How new lawyers should remain optimistic, nimble, and hardworking while building and maintaining strong personal networks that will support both career advancement and personal satisfaction [45:00] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    49 min
  4. #137: Adrienne Prentice - Tech Attorney Turned Founder & Lawyer Trainer

    JUL 24

    #137: Adrienne Prentice - Tech Attorney Turned Founder & Lawyer Trainer

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is Adrienne Prentice, CEO and Founder of Keep Company, a group learning platform helping legal organizations empower their teams with essential skills for the modern workplace. Before founding Keep Company, Adrienne's impressive career included roles as Manager of Attorney Talent at Hogan Levels, Vice President and Associate General Counsel at Hewlett Packard, and various positions at law firms and private companies. She holds degrees from Cornell University and American University's Washington College of Law. In this episode, Adrienne shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🎓💼 How following her gut and being open to opportunities led her from labor relations studies to corporate law [1:25] 👥🌟 How choosing mentors and practice areas based on people rather than just subject matter shaped her early career [2:22] 📚✨ How hands-on partner mentorship in 2007 provided invaluable learning experiences through direct observation [3:41] 📊💡 How the 2008 recession created unexpected career opportunities in green tech and federal recovery funding [6:07] 🤝📈 How sponsorship differs from mentorship in law firms and why it's crucial for career advancement [26:45] 💪🎯 How doing good work alone isn't enough - you need strategic relationships and advocates [28:26] 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦💼 How the legal profession is evolving in supporting parents and caregivers, with room for improvement [38:46] 🌱🔄 How law firms need to expand support beyond new parents to address challenges at all parenting stages [41:04] 🤝💫 How the pandemic has allowed fathers to be more vocal about work-life integration [43:34] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    46 min
  5. #146: Christopher Stephens - World Bank General Counsel

    MAY 23

    #146: Christopher Stephens - World Bank General Counsel

    Welcome back to another episode of the ⁠How I Lawyer Podcast⁠, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is Christopher Stephens⁠, the Senior Vice President and General Counsel of the World Bank Group, a role he has held since 2022. Before joining the World Bank Group, Chris served as General Counsel of the International Finance Corporation (the private sector arm of the World Bank) and General Counsel of the Asian Development Bank. Earlier in his career, he was Managing Partner for Asia and a member of the management committee at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe, where he was based in Hong Kong. He is a graduate of Colgate University and New York Law School. In this episode, Christopher Stephens shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🏢💼 How his desire to avoid the repetitive nature of advanced microeconomics led him to pursue law as a career that would provide variety in clients and challenges [1:38] 📝🔄 How his initial "two-year plan" to work in Big Law before joining his father's small firm evolved into a much longer career path as he got caught up in the partnership track [3:46] 📊💰 How the 1980s "decade of greed" created a frenzy of transactional work with leveraged buyouts, management buyouts, and private equity deals that shaped his early career [5:27] 🌐📈 How the American legal market's focus on profits per partner, which increased partner mobility [7:10] 🌏💱 How the 1997 Asian currency crisis forced him to reinvent himself as a China Investment Lawyer just six months after arriving in Hong Kong [11:42] 🏦⚖️ How moving from a law firm to an in-house position at the Asian Development Bank represented a major shift from a business where law is the product to one where legal is a support function [19:21] 🌉🤝 How the public sector mindset differs from private practice, with a focus on outcomes like poverty elimination rather than profit [23:43] 🎓📚 How law students should take challenging courses like tax, environmental law, accounting, and international law that are difficult to learn after graduation [26:45] 🧠🔍 How critical thinking is the most important skill for young lawyers, who should question conclusions rather than accepting them at face value [34:30] 🛣️🔄 How being open to change and adapting plans can lead to better opportunities and more enriching professional experiences [37:36] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by ⁠⁠LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys⁠⁠.

    39 min

  6. MAY 9

    #145: Panel Opinion - What Law Students Need to Know to Land a Summer Job

    In today's special episode of How I Lawyer Panel Opinion, I am happy to share the recording of an event co-hosted by two longtime friends of How I Lawyer: The Legal Mentor Network and Summer Associate Hub. This conversation about finding a summer job (pre-OCI, OCI and beyond) features: Albert Tawil (Founder and CEO of Summer Associate Hub)Ashley Alford (Manager of Early Careers and Legal Recruitment - Americas at White & Case)Douglas Saphire (Recruitment and Employer Outreach, BC Law)Lauren Tapper (Chief Talent Officer at Kramer Levin) I think the conversation is particularly valuable for current law students but may also be of significant interest to lawyers at every stage of their career.

    49 min
  7. #144: Sophia Lin Lakin - ACLU Voting Rights Project Director

    MAY 2

    #144: Sophia Lin Lakin - ACLU Voting Rights Project Director

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is Sophia Lin Lakin, the Director of the Voting Rights Project at the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), where she directs and supervises the ACLU's voting rights litigation strategy nationwide. Before joining the ACLU, Sophia clerked for Judge Raymond J. Lohier Jr. of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and Judge Carol Amon of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York. She is a graduate of Stanford Law School, where she also received her MS in Management Science and Engineering, and holds a BA in Political Science. In this episode, Sophia shares valuable insights about the legal profession including: 🎓🔄 How her academic journey through political science, management science, and engineering prepared her for a career focused on security and human rights before she discovered law [2:35] 🏥💪 How her experience with a serious health condition shaped her desire to become an advocate for the public interest [6:08] 🔄🗳️ How serendipity led her to voting rights work when Professor Pam Karlin suggested an internship at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund during an extra summer [7:52] ⚖️🔍 How the Supreme Court's Shelby County v. Holder decision created a sea change in voting rights work just as she was entering the field [11:10] 🚀💼 How her early career involved being thrown into challenging litigation tasks with minimal preparation—taking depositions, handling expert witnesses, and defending clients just months into her fellowship [12:36] 🧠👍 How she advises junior lawyers to "take a shot" and try to figure things out themselves first to build confidence and judgment [14:49] 📜🔄 How voting rights litigation has evolved from focusing on voter ID and early voting restrictions to exploring new legal avenues including First Amendment protections, disability rights law, and state courts [16:37] 🌎🚫 How election subversion and anti-immigrant rhetoric present serious concerns for voting rights in the current political climate [19:34] 🏢🔄 How law firm experience can be valuable for public interest careers by providing litigation skills that small organizations can't easily teach [28:00] 🏥💬 How being open and honest about her health condition throughout her education and career has been valuable, emphasizing that everyone deserves accommodations to perform at their best [33:28] 🎯🧠 How staying true to your goals despite law school distractions and maintaining confidence in your own path is crucial for success [36:46] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    39 min
  8. #143: Woodrow Hartzog - Law Professor and Privacy & Technology Law Expert

    APR 18

    #143: Woodrow Hartzog - Law Professor and Privacy & Technology Law Expert

    Welcome back to another episode of the How I Lawyer Podcast, where Professor Jonah Perlin interviews lawyers about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well. Today's guest is Professor Woodrow Hartzog, an internationally recognized expert in privacy and technology law whose work has been published in numerous top journals and books. Before becoming a law professor, Woodrow followed a nontraditional path that included earning his JD/MBA from Samford University, practicing at the regional law firm Burr and Forman, earning an LLM from George Washington University Law School, working as a trademark attorney at the US Patent and Trademark Office, and ultimately earning a PhD in mass communications from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In this episode, Professor Hartzog shares valuable insights about privacy, technology law, and career development including: 🌐⚖️ How his undergraduate journalism class sparked his interest in technology law when his professor admitted "nobody knows what the law of the Internet's going to be" [3:24] 🎵💿 How writing about Napster for his college newspaper and receiving feedback about copyright infringement further pushed him toward law school [4:11] 🔍📱 How the events of September 11, 2001 and the subsequent USA Patriot Act made him think seriously about privacy issues for the first time [5:04] 📚✍️ How he discovered his passion for academia when he realized he was writing law review articles about privacy "for fun" while working as a trademark attorney [11:29] 🎓🔄 How his mentor Dan Solove told him being a "privacy attorney" wasn't yet a real career path in the early 2000s—a reality that has dramatically changed [10:26] 🌊🚣 How sometimes you need to "feel where the river is taking you" in your career while still making intentional choices [13:16] 🎯💭 How the most important writing advice he received was that readers will only remember one thing from anything you write—so make that one thing count [32:51] 📝🧠 How his writing process often starts with "white hot rage" about something wrong that needs fixing, then breaking complex concepts into simpler parts [32:21] 🔑🚪 How reaching out to professors and mentors is crucial for success—"people are kind and want you to succeed" [40:18] ❓🧠 How asking questions, even when afraid of looking foolish, is essential because "real wisdom is understanding what you don't know" [41:31] This episode is sponsored, edited, and engineered by LawPods, a professional podcast production company for busy attorneys.

    43 min
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In this podcast Professor Jonah Perlin (Georgetown Law) interviews lawyers from across the profession about what they do, why they do it, and how they do it well.

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