Interview date: 1987 (published in “Left At East Gate” – 1997)
Interviewer(s): Larry Fawcett
Interviewee(s): Adrian Bustinza
Originally posted on our forum by Larry Warren.
LF – How long have you been out of the service?
AB – Oh, going on about two years. About a year and two or three months.
LF – How long were you in?
AB – Six years.
LF – Six years? How come you didn’t make a career out of it?
AB – Oh, I don’t know.
LF – Larry Warren told me you were a career man.
AB – No.
LF – No.
AB – They all thought I was, I guess.
LF – Larry had told me here in the beginning that he was at Bentwaters during the time of the incident and that he was on a guard post and a jeep pulled up with a Lieutenant Englund and I believe yourself was in the jeep.
AB – Right.
LF – Larry was told to get into the jeep and from there you drove down to the motor pool, I believe.
AB – Right.
LF – And Lieutenant Englund told you to fill the light-alls.
AB – With gas.
LF – With gas. Now Larry said there was something screwy. He said, “We filled these things up.” And I think it was either Lieutenant Englund or Captain Verrano that was there.
AB – It was, well, Lieutenant Englund was the one that was there.
LF – OK.
AB – Captain Verrano was on day shift at that time.
LF – OK. He said that the light-alls were filled and Englund kept saying they weren’t or something to that effect.
AB – Right.
LF – Does that sound right?
AB – Yes.
LF – He said the damned things were filled to overflowing and they kept saying they weren’t filled. Is that right?
AB – Yes, that’s correct.
LF – OK.
AB – So we went ahead, and we checked them. We made sure they were full, and they were full. And then we took them up back to the field, and they wouldn’t work. And they were functioning perfect when we tried them out.
LF – OK. Let me go on. You know, you can stop me if it’s different, OK?
AB – OK.
LF – Larry said from there you jumped in the jeep and went to the gate of Bentwaters.
AB – Right.
LF – There you met a couple of other vehicles.
AB – Correct.
LF – From there you went out the gate to Bentwaters toward Woodbridge.
AB – Right.
LF – OK. As you got past the east gate in Woodbridge, I believe, he said you turned off, like, a logging road.
AB – Right.
LF – He said there were military police in the street. There were flares down, and they were blocking traffic.
AB – Right.
LF – OK. From there you took a right and went up into the wooded area.
AB – Correct.
LF – He says when you got to like a sort of staging point up in there, there were other vehicles there when you got there.
AB – Right.
LF – OK. You got out of the vehicles. They took the weapons away from you.
AB – Well, they didn’t take mine.
LF – They didn’t take yours?
AB – No, sir.
LF – OK. Well
AB – They, well, let me see–no, mine wasn’t taken away, but I had a side arm also.
LF – You had a side arm?
AB – They did take our big weapons away, which were M16s.
LF – OK. Before I go any further on this point, Larry had said when he was at the guard post something very funny was happening. The animals were running out of the woods.
AB – Yes.
LF – A lot of deer.
AB – A lot of deer were running out of the woods and not only the deer, the rabbits. You know, I mean it was natural for the rabbits to run out of the fields but, you know, when the lights hit them–
not just by themselves.
LF – I see.
AB – And there was a lot of deer out in the roads,’cause I remember Lieutenant Englund cautioned me to drive with caution on the way over there. There was animals all over the road.
LF – OK. Now he said there was a Major Zickler there also.
AB – Yes, that was our squadron commander.
LF – In fact, Larry said when he stepped out of the jeep he fell into mud up to his waist.
AB – True.
LF – Everybody was laughing.
AB – Yeah.
LF – Now Larry said they broke up into about four-man teams.
AB – Right.
LF – And you started to go into the woods like in a line.
AB – Correct.
LF – And there was John Burroughs there?
AB – John Burroughs, correct.
LF – All right. Sergeant Medina?
AB – Right.
LF – A Captain Verrano?
AB – Captain Verrano, yeah, station commander.
LF – Ball, Sergeant Ball?
AB – Yeah, Master Sergeant Ball, my flight chief.
LF – Mark Thompson?
AB – Oh, yeah, that crazy guy, yeah.
LF – Sergeant Combs?
AB – Sergeant Combs, law enforcement?
LF – Yeah. Airman Palmer?
AB – Palmer. Law enforcement, too.
LF – OK. From that point, you went into the woods in a line, I guess. Were there any bobbies there or British police or anything?
AB – Not at the beginning.
LF – Not at the beginning?
AB – No.
LF – OK. As you were going through now, Larry said all of a sudden, they could see lights coming through the woods and he could also hear helicopters over above.
AB – Yes, a squadron, pararescue squadron was activated.
LF – Pararescue. Where were they from? Woodbridge?
AB – Woodbridge they weren’t very far away as a matter of fact.
LF – Do you know how many were up at the time?
AB – I recall Major Zickler said, scramble two, I believe he said.
LF – Two?
AB – Two. I think that’s what he prescribed, two.
LF – OK. As we’re going into the field now, Larry said he could see lights coming through the field.
AB – Right.
LF – You got to sort of like a barbed-wire fence, I think he said, or a stone fence or something.
AB – A barbed-wire fence.
LF – And at this point Larry could hear the helicopters talking with the ground radios.
AB – Right. They flew by the officers there.
LF – OK. As you got into the field, Larry said the field was ringed by military people and British personnel.
AB – Yes.
LF – Is that right?
AB – Yes.
LF – How many do you figure there were?
AB – Oh, I estimate at least thirty people.
LF – Thirty?
AB – At least thirty.
LF – Now, Larry said that he saw movie-picture cameras.
AB – Movie-picture cameras?
LF – Yeah. You know, they were taking pictures.
AB – Well, yeah they were, but I didn’t know they were movie pictures or not. I did see a couple flashes.
LF – OK. Larry says at this point, when you came to the field, there was like a large aspirin-shaped transparent thing in the middle of the field.
AB – OK, that’s the yellow mist I was talking about.
LF – Right. All of a sudden he could hear the helicopter or somebody say, “Here it comes.” And they looked up, and over the pine trees came a red ball of light. And this red ball of light like went over the top of this mist in the middle of the field and all of a sudden it exploded into a lot of colors, but there was no sound. Do you remember that?
AB – Yes, I remember that. That’s the main, the cream of the crop I would say.
LF – Well, you know that I know what I’m talking about then?
AB – Yes.
LF – OK. After the colors dissipated, Larry said, there, was this machine there. This “thing,” what he called it. Now, he drew several pictures for us, and he said that you were told to get going closer to it. He–I believe he said it was him, might have been Zickler, I’m not sure–and two other guys walked out into the field toward this thing. Is that correct?
AB – Yes, sir, that’s correct.
LF – You get up next to this machine, very close, and as you started to walk you could see your shadows on it, and when you stopped, the shadows continued a little bit. Now, Larry says at this point a light came down from the top of the thing and sort of like jumped from head to head on the shadows, and at this point, Larry says he can’t remember anything. And the next thing you know, he woke up. He was in his barracks on his bed. He was covered with mud, and he asked his roommate what time he was brought in. They said around four o’clock in the morning. Now, he said that the next day he was told to go down in the security shack, I guess, whatever you have there.
AB – Security control.
LF – He was debriefed and told basically not to say anything about the incident, that they’re to go on with their lives and to forget about it.
AB – Right.
LF – Larry said that either that day or the next day, he got a call to go outside his barracks. That he would be picked up by an automobile, and him, and I believe he said, three or four other guys were out there. Now this vehicle pulls up. Now here’s where it gets crazy. This vehicle pulls up and a couple of Chinese-looking guys get out, as he describes them. Oriental types, and he’s told to get into the back of the vehicle; he says it was very strange inside. The only way he could describe it, you ever see the green lights from the dash? was like this vehicle. He got inside the vehicle, and they started to drive, and the next thing he knew he was underground somewhere. I don’t know if you know any of this. Are you there?
AB – Yeah, I’m with you. I don’t want to say anything else. I’m with you.
LF – OK. Now, from this point, he was taken underground, he got out and they walked along a catwalk inside. Now, he said this cave was man-made, you could see it was man-made. And as they were walking along, he could look down and he could see people down below; he said also there was one of these machines down there that they saw in the field. Does that sound anything?
AB – The underground part. I really don’t know anything about the underground part.
LF – OK. Now, let me get back to the field part, OK? We put Larry under regressive hypnosis. Now, what came out under hypnosis was, while he was in the field and he was standing next to that machine, he was like petrified–frozen–that he couldn’t move, you know? And he could see beings, small type of creatures. And they were talking to an officer there. He gave me the officer’s name Williams, I can’t remember who the hell it was now. It was a big guy whoever it was.
AB – Lieutenant Colonel Halt.
LF – Halt. OK. And he said the beings were conversing with Halt. And at this point, something happened on the other side of the craft because all the beings like got defensive. They all lined up. Larry said he could hear a commotion on the other side of this machine, and all the beings’ eyes got real big, and they all lined up in a straight line, real quick, like a defensive move. And then they dissipated a little bit, you know. It seemed to calm down whatever was going on on the other side of the ship. At this point, one of the beings floated over the top and came over by him, and that’s the last thing he remembers. Does it sound anything like you remember?
AB – OK. Oh, boy, let me see. I remember the conversation. I don’t remember word-for-word conversation, OK?
LF – Yeah.
AB – What was going on, I was shocked.
LF – You saw the beings?
AB – I just couldn’t believe what was going on. I thought I was in a dreamworld or something.
LF – OK. Do you remember any of the conversation between Halt and the beings?
AB – No, I don’t. To be honest with you, I don’t. I was just in the feeling of insecurity with it. When you feel helpless
LF – Yeah.
AB – totally helpless. Even though there was plenty of personnel there and they want you to feel secure, and considering the kind of job we did, one would feel secure, but you feel like your whole body, your whole privacy has been invaded.
LF – Right.
AB – No escape, you know?
LF – Boy, Larry said the same thing.
AB – Right.
LF – If it wasn’t for Larry, I wouldn’t have been able to sue the government to get the documentation of this incident. Let me go on a little further now. Larry said that something happened to their machine. Do you remember that?
AB – Yeah.
LF – And our government helped them repair that machine. They flew a piece in from Germany, I believe.
AB – Hold on, let me see. Colonel Halt, when we approached the machine, I remember Colonel Halt said–I remember Larry. I don’t know why they picked Larry, but I remember Larry was going up there, and I was so scared I don’t know what to think. I was in a foreign country, you know.
LF – Yeah. Larry said you made a comment, and you said something like, “Oh, no, not again!” Yes. And Larry said, “What do you mean?” And you said, “I went through this.” See Larry had it mixed up though. He said, “I went through this in Alaska once before.”
AB – Yeah, OK. It wasn’t Alaska. When I was talking to them and I was telling them about it, I had just come from Alaska TDY.
LF – Yeah.
AB – It was in California where it actually happened.
LF – This was at Davis?
AB – Mather Air Force Base. Yeah.
LF – OK. So go ahead, you started to say something.
AB – I said “Oh, no, not again.” Colonel Halt said–he mentioned a couple of names to me. We walked up toward the craft.
LF – Yeah.
AB – When we walked up there, Colonel Halt started talking, and it was like, it was instant communication between personnel.
LF – Between the men?
AB – The men.
LF – How about the beings?
AB – To tell the truth, I remember seeing the craft. I remember Colonel Halt talking, and I remember looking to who he was talking to and I couldn’t see nobody.
LF – You couldn’t see nobody?
AB – I couldn’t see what, I mean, who he was talking to, and for a minute there I thought everybody there was going crazy here or something, you know. And I do remember him saying he would contact the electronics division, which would be CRF, I think it was, the call letters for the group. And they would possibly have to get the part from another world. And I just looked at, I couldn’t hold my, you know. Who are you talking to, what are you talking about, you know?
LF – Right.
AB – It was like, when something like that’s happening right before your eyes, you want to try to keep track of everything, but it’s hard because everything is happening so fast.
LF – Yeah.
AB – More or less, it was like Larry says. I remember that, and then after that, you know, I woke up in the morning.
LF – You don’t know how you got out of the field?
AB – I don’t know, well, yes, I remember. I got back in the jeep and lieutenant who was in the jeep, they kept telling us that we were better off not talking to anybody about this at all.
LF – I see.
AB – Not even among ourselves. He said people would think different about us and everybody. Lieutenant looked at me, he said, “You’re a supervisor, you ought to know better.” And he said, “You keep an eye on these guys. If anybody says anything, you report to Colonel Halt.”
LF – OK.
AB – And then personnel affairs would handle the whole situation.
LF – OK. Now, you did see Halt talking to somebody though, but you could not see who he was talking to.
AB – Right.
LF – What, do you remember, basically, what was he saying? Just that we can get parts from the electronics division or we’d try to get parts?
AB – The electronics division, that’s all. I’m sure, I remember. Because I looked at him real funny, I remember, I said, “Electronics division, who is he talking to, what is he talking to?” I asked myself those questions.
LF – What about the other guys with you? Did they see anything? Besides Larry?
AB – I really, Burroughs, I think. See, I’m trying to debate; Burroughs
I’m not sure. I remember somebody taking pictures, right?
LF – Yeah. Well, we know that.
AB – The guys used to have pretty good confidence in me out there, and, I don’t know. One of the guys told me that he had taken a picture. They confiscated the cameras from some of the personnel there and the film. I can’t remember if it’s Burroughs or the other guy–they said, “I switched the film, I got to get my film out of the camera.”
LF – That’s what I heard. Larry had told me he thought you did it.
AB – No, I was on duty that night, and I didn’t have my camera with me. I wish I could have done something like that.
LF – Now, according to Larry, they flew a piece in from Germany, and it landed at Bentwaters. Do you remember that?
AB – Yeah. When the plane flew in, I remember they called for security right off the bat. And I happened to be on duty, and I set the security.
LF – Was that the same day?
AB – No, because we had been working days then. It was in the swing, so it had to be about three or four days later. Because then we went on three-day break.
LF – Well, then, how long was that machine there then?
AB – I really don’t know. I mean, as far as out in the field?
LF – Yeah.
AB – When we came in contact with it. Two nights.
LF – Two nights it was there.
AB – Uh-huh. I went on my three days off after that.
LF – OK.
AB – See because Larry’s shift and my shift intermixed.
LF – OK.
AB – When they were working days, we were interlapping with each other.
LF – OK. Let me go on a little further now. Larry said after the morning when he woke up, he went to that briefing in the, what is it
AB – The CFC briefing.
LF – Yeah, CFC, that’s it. And they were shown a film in there. The guy said, “Once you see this film, you’ll know why all the secrecy.” Why it’s necessary for all the secrecy. And they began showing film clips. World War II vintage it started out, showing a flight of aircraft, and over above was a bunch of flying disks. Then they showed another film, which was Korean War vintage where a MIG–a Chinese MIG–was flying, and UFOs came up alongside of it, and it tipped, and the MIG went down and crashed. Then they showed another film clip from Vietnam, showed a disk coming up out of the jungle sort of like. Almost like what you’ve seen in the field there.
AB – Right.
LF – Then they showed another film which was the Apollo landings, and there were these disks on the moon. Did you see that film also?
AB – No, sir. I did not see that.
LF – You didn’t. Did you ever hear anybody say they saw that film?
AB – Yes. I recall I was having a conversation, this is after the incident happened, a couple of days afterward. I was having a conversation with somebody, and we were up in his room; it was one of these individuals that was there, as a matter of fact.
LF – OK.
AB – And he said he had been taken in to look at that, they had been showing these films. And he was asking me if I had been, you know, seen these films. And I said, no. I said, I haven’t. I said, “but they got you all upset.” I can’t remember his name he wasn’t a real good acquaintance of mine. But he said that he’d been taken, like in the underground or something like that, and was watching. They were showing some films that they had told him not to say anything to the others, but he figured since I was one of the individuals that walked up to the craft, that I would have been one of the first ones that got shown. They either just kind of ignored me, period, or forgot about me. But I don’t think they would have forgotten about me like that. You know?
LF – Uh-huh.
AB – But to tell the truth, they didn’t do much with me. I got debriefed a lot–I did get debriefed a lot. Major Zickler and Lieutenant Colonel Halt, and I even had three meetings with the base commander himseLF -
LF – Who was that?
AB – The base commander at the time was
LF – I had his name, Larry gave it to me. But I don’t have it in front of me.
AB – It would be Colonel God, I can’t even remember his name.
LF – Was it Gordon Williams?
AB – Williams, Colonel Williams.
LF – That’s it. Well, he’s now a brigadier general.
AB – Is he really?
LF – Yeah. Now, what did he say to you? When you went into the office, what happened?
AB – He told me he wasn’t fully aware of what was going on. But that he had gotten, from higher-up officials, a briefing of what was more or less going on. And they had told him to bring in individuals individually and give them a briefing as to how to communicate with the press if at any chance we were approached by the press off base.
LF – Did they ever tell you what this machine was?
AB – No, they didn’t. Colonel Williams’s words were, quote unquote, “Whatever you saw out there, I don’t want to personally know anything about it. That’s between you and whoever’s handling the case.” Well, no one ever told me what that machine was. I just took it for granted, since it was nothing I had ever seen, I took it for granted–I labeled it a UFO. What I thought afterward was that these supposedly UFOs, with beings and stuff, they’re far more intelligent supposedly than we are, how is the air force going to help them fix the machine? How are they going to help? I remember the words Colonel Halt said: “We’ll get you the parts from our electronics division.” And that kept ringing a bell and ringing a bell, like how can we help them? You know?
LF – Adrian, describe what the machine looked like.
AB – That I won’t forget. It was the first time I’ve seen one like it. It was circular shaped it looked like a pancake. It was thick in the middle, and it would narrow out toward the edges. I seen lights, all kind of lights. It would have been a beautiful sight, you know. The lights were so bright that I could only see certain parts of the craft, and there were a bunch of little gadgets on it, too, like some planes got, and other little gadgets that I never even seen on aircraft before.
LF – Was it made of metal?
AB – I would assume.
LF – OK. About how close did you get to this thing?
AB – I’d say I was about, within six to ten feet of it.
LF – And how big was it?
AB – It wasn’t a humongous thing, but it was of a very good size.
LF – Compare it with the size of, say, a Chevy or a Dodge or something like that. Make a comparison with something in size–a truck, tractor trailer in length.
AB – About as wide as an A-10. From what I could see in the beginning, it was very big, but I couldn’t really tell exactly how big as big as a medium-sized house, I would say.
LF – And larger than maybe twelve feet?
AB – Yes, in height, definitely yes.
LF – And how big are the A-10s in length?
AB – About forty feet.
LF – Did you hear any sounds when you were up near it?
AB – The only sound that I heard was like a rumble, like when you hear a jet pass over. But I don’t know whether it was the choppers or it was the sound coming out of the machine down there.
LF – You didn’t see any engines on this machine, right?
AB – No, I didn’t.
LF – When it moved, when it took off, did you hear anything or feel anything?
AB – When it took off, it was, like, hovering. It went up and, like, took off at about a forty-five-degree angle, and if you would have blinked, you would have missed it.
LF – That fast?
AB – That fast. And we got a cold draft of air that lasted about a good ten seconds. You know, like when you get a good blow of dust or wind. No noise though; I do remember that.
LF – OK. When it took off, were you able to see the bottom of it?
AB – No, I can’t say I did.
LF – Did the colors change at all?
AB – The colors were constantly changing while I was there. I remember, it was different colors, and they just, like, go on and off or go to a lower shade.
LF – When the machine was down on the ground, what color was the body of the machine?
AB – I’d say like a blackish grayish.
LF – But it was metal, you’re sure of that?
AB – I’m pretty sure, it had to be metal, yeah.
LF – Black or grayish. And did the machine glow at all when it took off? Did the lights change?
AB – The lights, yes. That’s what it did. It turned, like, into a ball of light.
LF – The whole machine?
AB – The whole machine. And it was like a glow around it, and it just took off.
LF – How long was it on the ground there. Do you remember?
AB – I don’t remember how long.
LF – But you did see it take off?
AB – Yes, I did.
LF – And it was after they fixed it? Did you see them fix it there?
AB – No, I didn’t see them fix it.
LF – What makes you think that airplane that came in from Germany had parts of that machine?
AB – Well, because I’ve never seen a C-130 come in and get security the way this plane got security. Planes are constantly coming in and out, and C-130s always landed at Woodbridge. Next thing, we got top aid security on it, and guess who gets called.
LF – OK. So, how long do you think the whole incident, landing, took while you were in that field?
AB – Oh, I’d say I was in that field a good three, four hours.
LF – Were there British military personnel there?
AB – I don’t recall British military personnel, but I do recall the bobbies.
LF – What were they doing?
AB – They were in the background. As a matter of fact, I don’t think they were even close enough to see there was a craft. They were in the wooded area. I guess they were like a perimeter security.
LF – OK.
AB – It flew toward the wooded area. You know I didn’t like when I saw it up close. I couldn’t understand how a big thing–that big–
could go in. It seemed like this thing was going dashing in between the trees. We were chasing it for a while.
LF – OK. Let me get into a little bit more, and then I’ll let you go. Larry also told me something really screwy happened after they showed him the films. Larry said all of a sudden there was a shadow, appeared behind the screen, and he could hear voices in his head, like somebody was talking to him, saying something like, “We’ve been here a long time. The governments, all the powers of the world, know about us. Your government isn’t what it looks to be. We are in charge.” Like Larry could ask questions in his mind, and answers would come to him. Did you ever hear anything like that before?
AB – No. It was really funny that, ever since then, I don’t know whether I went through something like that and then I never realized it, but I get dreams every now and then, you know, like someone was talking to me. I don’t know whether it’s something I’m trying to remember that happened, that I wasn’t aware of, or maybe they’re just dreams, I don’t know. The government is capable of so many things. I’ve been on the inside, and I’ve seen what they can do to the outside.
LF – Larry told me he was threatened. They told Larry that bullets are very cheap if he opened his mouth. Do you remember anything like that? Any threatening of any of the witnesses?
AB – No. They just warned me. They told me, this is a warning. You know better. I figured it was all CIA work.
LF – Oh, that’s another question I wanted to ask you. Were there any civilians during this time there? Like CIA or FBI people?
AB – There was a lot of plains. There were about eight plainclothesmen. Right after this incident, the air force secretary came to visit the base.
LF – And that was right after the incident?
AB – Yes, sir. And then we had a visit from Major, Commander Bouchard, that was his the secretary’s personal bodyguard.
LF – Did he talk about the incident?
AB – No. He said, “I understand you were involved in the incident, too?” I just kind of played dumb and said, “I don’t recall what incident you’re talking about.” He said, “Well, we’ll just leave it at that then.”
LF – OK. Can you think of anything else that might be important?
AB – After that incident I was sent on three different TDYs. Nobody who’s right off the rank could go on a TDY like that, if you know where I’m coming from.
LF – Did Larry disappear for a couple of days?
AB – About a week’s period.
LF – He was off the base? You didn’t know where he was?
AB – Right. I remember I looked for him, and I was going to ask him, I needed to talk to somebody–I couldn’t find him.
LF – OK, well Larry said when he came out of the underground complex, it was by the photo…
AB – By the photo lab, right.
LF – He said there’s an exit there from the underground complex by the photo…
AB – OK, I know about that. I know about that underground thing there.
LF – You do?
AB – Yes, it’s Intelligence.
LF – It’s Intelligence.
AB – One night I was with . I was making a security check of the Intelligence building, which we always did. The door was open, the windows were open, like somebody had been looking for something. We made a check, and I secured the building. Checked everything around the building, and at one point, I saw a shadow. I reported seeing it. By the time I had done my sweep, came back and did their second sweep. Intelligence was called out and made a sweep of the building and everything. Their papers had been ruffled, and one of the safes was open. When they relieved me of my post, they told me Intelligence wanted to talk to me, and they took me down there to the bottom. The reason I know about the bottom is because that’s where they supposedly kept all their crypto material.
LF – How big is this place underground?
AB – It’s about, I’d say it would hold a good five hundred people in case of, like a shelter.
LF – It’s like a shelter? OK. The thing at the California base matters. What happened there?
AB – There, we didn’t really see muchwe were all out on the perimeter. The alert pad and bright lights lit up the whole area, and there was something in the middle of the pad but hovering about, oh, forty, fifty feet above in the air. Real shiny lights. You couldn’t even look up at it really–bright, bright lights all around. And then it just disappeared. We called it in, they just started laughing at us.
LF – What was your unit at the time?
AB – 320 SPS.
LF – What year was that, do you remember?
AB – ’77,’78, or ’79.
LF – You don’t remember exactly?
AB – I don’t remember exactly. I put that one way behind me. It was one of the first times and the last one for me until I went to Bentwaters.
LF – Remember when you were telling me the helicopters came in from Woodbridge? What outfit was that there?
AB – 67 ARRS.
LF – The other thing, you were talking with the electronics division, CRS, right?
AB – Yes.
